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DM's Beatles forums    Beatles forums    Songs  ›  Baby You're A Rich Man Moderators: Sandra, BlueMeanie, harihead

Baby You're A Rich Man  This thread currently has 1,068 views. Print
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Mean_Mr_Mustard
February 6, 2006, 8:59am Report to Moderator

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http://www.songmeanings.net/lyric.php?lid=735

Is this true that the song is about Epstein? And also did Mick Jagger sing backup vocals?
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ma_tt2
February 7, 2006, 4:06am Report to Moderator

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I know Mick Jagger sang backup vocals, I'm not too sure if it was about Epstein? That would make it intresting though.
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raxo
February 7, 2006, 3:19pm Report to Moderator
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"Baby You're a Rich Man" is a song by the Beatles recorded on May 11, 1967 at Olympic Sound Studios, the first song recorded and mixed completely outside Abbey Road Studios. It was first recorded for the Yellow Submarine cartoon, but appeared on record as the b-side to All You Need is Love, then on the U.S. release of Magical Mystery Tour, in 1967. It was originally titled "One of the Beautiful People."

The song actually started out as two different, unfinished songs, one written by John Lennon and the other by Paul McCartney. The two songs were combined in a similar fashion to A Day in the Life. "Baby You're a Rich Man" allegedly refers to the Beatles' manager Brian Epstein. There is a rumor about the song that during the fade-out, Lennon sang "Baby you're a rich f** Jew" as a joke at Epstein, who was Jewish and a homosexual.

Mick Jagger provides back-up vocals on the song.

For several years, the song was only available in either mono or simulated stereo. Producer George Martin and recording engineer Geoff Emerick created a true stereo mix of the song in 1971 for the release of the Magical Mystery Tour album in Germany."

From here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_You're_a_Rich_Man

    -------------------

"Once again the talents of John and Paul got together to create a single song. Baby You're a Rich Man was originally an Unfinished McCartney song, while John had his "One of the Beautiful People". Combining both, The Beatles recorded it at the Olympic Sound Studios in barely 6 hours (the first time a song was completed totally outside Abbey Road). The track was intended originally for the Yellow Submarine project. However, it was soon included in the All You Need is Love single and didn't make it to the Yellow Submarine soundtrack. Nevertheless, the song does appear in the film, as John sings "how does it feel to be one of the beautiful people".
One of the Beautiful People, was a song written by John referring to the new generation of hippies that had a positive way of thinking towards life. Everything was beautiful in a sense, and as Paul said in an interview "everything's great and there's no bad ever if I can think of it as great". The other song, Baby You're a Rich Man, was in fact about Brian Epstein, and the sense of the lyrics according to John were clear: "stop moaning, you're a rich man..." In a demo version of the song John even sung "baby you're a rich f** jew"

From here: http://www.upv.es/~ecabrera/

    -------------------------


"Baby You're A Rich Man (Lennon/McCartney)

Song background
As with many of the songs from this point in the Beatles' career, "Baby You're a Rich Man" was a combination of two songs; "One of the Beautiful People" by John and "Baby You're a Rich Man" by Paul. The "beautiful people" are a generation of hippies who freely described events and people as "beautiful" and the "rich man" is said to be Brian Epstein.

Recording dates
May 11, 1967 (12 takes; basic track, overdubs, mixing)
November 7, 1967 (false stereo mixing for Capitol)
August 22, 1968 (unused mono mixing)
October 22, 1971 (true stereo mixing for German album)

Release dates
July 7, 1967 (UK) ("All You Need is Love/Baby, You're A Rich Man" single)
July 17, 1967 (US) ("All You Need is Love/Baby, You're A Rich Man" single)
Magical Mystery Tour)

Recording notes
As indicated on one of the (two) tape boxes from the recording session (which reads "+ Mick Jagger"), Rolling Stones vocalist Mick Jagger may be present on "Baby You're A Rich Man".

From here: http://www.aboutthebeatles.com/song-baby_youre_a_rich_man.html

    -------------------

Did Brian Jones play the oboe?
http://www.beatles-discography.com/


    ------------------

I don't think Mick sang on this one ... and it seems that the song was dedicated to Brian and they could have made a joke when they're writing/composing it but not more.

It's one of my favourite songs by them ... in my top-5 for sure.
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Indica
February 7, 2006, 8:16pm Report to Moderator

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I have to listen all the way through until 2:45 ... Pauls "baby!" ..what a voice..


Whats the matter lads? Blue Meanies?

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raxo
February 9, 2006, 8:53am Report to Moderator
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This song is my choice (sorry You Know My Name (Look Up The Number)) on this thread:
"If you could pick one Beatles song...."
http://dmbeatles.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-songs/m-1139152191/

so it's not only on my Top-5 but it should be my favourite one!
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zipp
February 9, 2006, 9:25pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Mean_Mr_Mustard

Is this true that the song is about Epstein? And also did Mick Jagger sing backup vocals?


To get back to your questions.

The answer to your first one is probably not and the answer to the second is possibly yes!

The 'Baby you're a rich man' line was Paul's contribution and I doubt he'd write a lyric specificallly about Epstein.But during the recording John apparently had fun changing 'rich man too' into 'rich f** jew'.This is supposed to exist on a demo.Has anyone on the board heard it?

Since the song was recorded at Olympic (a Rolling Stones' haunt) it seems certain that Jagger was there and he may well have joined in the chorus right at the end according to Lewisohn.

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raxo
February 9, 2006, 11:34pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from zipp


To get back to your questions.

The answer to your first one is probably not and the answer to the second is possibly yes!

The 'Baby you're a rich man' line was Paul's contribution and I doubt he'd write a lyric specificallly about Epstein.But during the recording John apparently had fun changing 'rich man too' into 'rich f** jew'.This is supposed to exist on a demo.Has anyone on the board heard it?

Since the song was recorded at Olympic (a Rolling Stones' haunt) it seems certain that Jagger was there and he may well have joined in the chorus right at the end according to Lewisohn.



Yep, let's get back to the questions ...

The lyrics (from DM's site):

How does it feel to be one of the beautiful people?
Now that you know who you are, what do you want to be?
And have you traveled very far? far as the eye can see

How does it feel to be one of the beautiful people?
How often have you been there? often enough to know
What did you see when you were there? nothing that doesn't show

Baby, you're a rich man, baby you're a rich man, baby you're a rich man, too
You keep all your money in a big brown bag inside a zoo, what a thing to do!
Baby, you're a rich man, baby you're a rich man, baby you're a rich man, too

How does it feel to be one of the beautiful people?
Tuned to a natural E, happy to be that way
Now that you've found another key, what are you going to play?

Baby, you're a rich man, baby you're a rich man, baby you're a rich man, too
You keep all your money in a big brown bag inside a zoo, what a thing to do!
(Baby!) baby, you're a rich man, baby you're a rich man, baby you're a
rich man, too (ohh!)

Baby, you're a rich man, baby you're a rich man (baby, baby!), baby you're
a rich man, too (whoa, oh!)

Baby, you're a rich man, baby you're a rich man, baby you're a rich man...

(fade out)


Acording to Peter Brown's (yep, the one mentioned in The Ballad Of John And Yoko) book "The Love You Make: An Insider's Story of the Beatles" the guys (well, Brian) were paid at their concerts using big brown bag made out of paper ...

Basing on that I think that that part of that line, maybe the title and the first verse are posible references to Brian, -if we've got a twisted mind   - ... but honestly, I don't think in Brian each time I listen to the song ...  

However, I agree with zipp about which parts were composed by who ... and I remember that, sadly, Paul was not a big fan of Brian, -specially at that time-, and IF those lines were references to him, Paul would have been more careful with the lyrics ...

Sadly, I don't remember that bootleg ... but certainly there are so many out there ... and I've listened to so many too that I can't remember ... tho I'm quite sure that I have not (yet?   )because this is one of my favourite tunes and ...
... after all, that story fits very well with John's sense of humor  ...

Anyway, I've always enjoyed that line about the bag and the zoo ... and you all can easily understand why the character of Mr. Mustard always comes to my mind when I listen to it  

About the Mick thing I agree with zipp once again ... it's quite posible -I admit that I'm lost here- ... lots of sources say that MAYBE he sang backing vocals at the end of the song ... the studio, the period and their frenchship make it all posible ... who knows? ... I wish that this kind of collaborations (so special ones) could have been better known by public in general, not only by Mark (if it's the case).

P.S. I love this song ... I'm currently listening to it  

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Mean_Mr_Mustard
February 10, 2006, 5:07am Report to Moderator

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You are right about it fitting with Johns sense of humour.

I got this from Wikipedia dont know how accurate it is but it sounds like John lol.

Quoted Text
In addition to managing the Beatles, Epstein also successfully managed Gerry & the Pacemakers, Billy J. Kramer & The Dakotas, The Fourmost, Cilla Black and many other artists. In October 1964, Epstein's autobiography, A Cellarful of Noise, was published in the UK and later in the US. It was cowritten by journalist Derek Taylor, who had served as Epstein's assistant that year, then later as publicist for the Beatles from 1968-1970. (Lennon joked to Epstein that the memoir should have been titled A Cellarful of Boys.)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Epstein
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Bobber
February 10, 2006, 8:37am Report to Moderator

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I'm not too aware of hippie-history, but I think 'beautiful people' was a common statement in the summer of love. Remember Melanie had a hitsingle with the same title.
I can imagine why Paul wasn't a big fan of Brian anymore. Their time of concerts was over -in which Brian had a big hand- and Brian wasn't really good with the money, making some ridiculous contracts, especially about merchandising.
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Mean_Mr_Mustard
February 10, 2006, 9:28am Report to Moderator

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But he did help in squabbles between then 4 of them didnt he?
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raxo
February 10, 2006, 10:23am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Bobber
...
I can imagine why Paul wasn't a big fan of Brian anymore. ...


Yep, ... It's clear (to me) that in the big brown bag line Paul is refering to economic business ... and surely to Brian ... tho it was an inner joke it was a too clear one for all of them ...

What it's weird to me is that I think that it doesn't fit too much with Paul's writing style at that period ... maybe in 1970-1971 but when they recorded Baby You're A Rich Man Brian was still alive and their business had not been working too well ...

IF it's so it would be very cruel ... but Paul could be -let's say- un-polite when he wanted ... and we know that he was -at least once- with Brian.

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zipp
February 10, 2006, 5:20pm Report to Moderator

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Lennon could be extremely cruel to Epstein.More than Paul because Brian was emotionally involved with John.
I've heard a bootleg where Lennon sings a song about Epstein which is none too nice.
And in his book, Tony Barrow describes Lennon coming to shake hands and then grabbing Epstein by the balls, bringing tears to his eyes.
I doubt if Paul ever did that!
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Indica
February 10, 2006, 5:21pm Report to Moderator

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I doubt if John ever did that ...


Whats the matter lads? Blue Meanies?

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Mean_Mr_Mustard
February 10, 2006, 6:45pm Report to Moderator

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If he did it is one of the most hilarious things I have ever heard.
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raxo
February 10, 2006, 8:36pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from zipp
Lennon could be extremely cruel to Epstein.More than Paul because Brian was emotionally involved with John.
I've heard a bootleg where Lennon sings a song about Epstein which is none too nice.
And in his book, Tony Barrow describes Lennon coming to shake hands and then grabbing Epstein by the balls, bringing tears to his eyes.
I doubt if Paul ever did that!


Yep, and IF Paul wrote that line thinking about Brian then John's antisemite joke could have had its own place.

I've heard that bootleg too ... one of John's multiple sides.

About that description -tears included- it seems, at least, exaggerated to me ... I know about John's cruelness but about his sweetest side (both in Barcelona, early 63, for example) too ...

                                   *   *   *
I seize the opportunity to say that some people think that the guys were cynical but I do doubt it ... surely they acted as cynical ones when they were under pressure but, most of the time, ... they were ... well, if someone wants to take a look at this:

http://dmbeatles.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-fifths/m-1136594557/

and if someone remembers how everybody who was near to them (producer, engineers, friends, ... ) and anyone who met them remember them, John included:

http://dmbeatles.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b=lennon,m=1134146891

... and there are only two examples ... not exceptions
                                   *   *   *

Paul usually tells that one of his most embarrasing/hated or simply worst (called X) moment in his life was the humillation he caused to Brian on an elevator ... and it was only about economic busines!
Certainly Paul was not just a pretty face as John sang ... but he's got his own style ... even to be cruel ... sometimes more than John ... deeply cruel, y'know.
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zipp
February 11, 2006, 10:10am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from IndicaWalrus
I doubt if John ever did that ...


Tony Barrow was their press officer.He has absolutely no reason to make this up.
Raxo's example of John being nice was with a journalist, so for public consumption.
Barrow was with the Beatles behind the scenes, and he saw what they were really like.
Of course we all know John could be charming and funny, but he wasn't always.
And going to Barcelona with Epstein when his first wife had just had their first baby is not a good example of a nice thing to do.
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raxo
February 11, 2006, 11:35am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from zipp


Tony Barrow was their press officer.He has absolutely no reason to make this up.
Raxo's example of John being nice was with a journalist, so for public consumption.
Barrow was with the Beatles behind the scenes, and he saw what they were really like.
Of course we all know John could be charming and funny, but he wasn't always.
And going to Barcelona with Epstein when his first wife had just had their first baby is not a good example of a nice thing to do.


Of course, he has not ... or maybe he was trying to sell a book?


I've posted TWO links there ... after all, a journalists is a person too -most of them, at least- ... I was talking about cynicism, so why don't we re-read Anthology Book: Neil says something in the "A Hard DAy's Night film at Liverpool" chapter about John, pressure and his behaviour ... and at the end of the "Help!" film chapter -just before the "Yesterday" one- we can re-read more ... and maybe we can learn something, who knows? ... John is very clear in the last part I've pointed about HE ... and more about PAUL!!! ... there are lots of examples for those who want to see them ... I'm not saying that John was a saint but certainly not the contrary or the cynical guy some media described ...and Paul could hurt at least like John or more if he wanted it.


Was Tony the only one who ever met them?


Of course that everybody who knew him loved him (Paul's words at "Brian Epstein" Chapter on Anthology Book, for example ... another good one to see how nice John was to Brian) ... because everybody was blind, uh?


And going to Barcelona with Epstein when his first wife had just had their first baby is a good example of a nice thing to do ... if I was talking about his relationship with BRIAN!!!


P.S. There was nothing personal on my last post, zipp ... I was just seizing that oportunity to exlpain what I thought about all that has been said about the cynical John ... and you was not necessarily included in those some people think that the guys were cynical I said ... as I see it you pointed to his cruelness ...
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zipp
February 11, 2006, 1:38pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from raxo


Of course, he has not ... or maybe he was trying to sell a book?


I've posted TWO links there ..

Was Tony the only one who ever met them?


He didn't make a big thing of it.No big sell like Cynthia.It's just in his book and I think it's true.

I know you posted two links but the second was about Paul.

Tony Barrow didn't meet the Beatles, he worked with them on a daily basis over several years.

That's all I was saying.It's no big deal.

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raxo
February 11, 2006, 3:28pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from zipp


He didn't make a big thing of it.No big sell like Cynthia.It's just in his book and I think it's true.

I know you posted two links but the second was about Paul.

Tony Barrow didn't meet the Beatles, he worked with them on a daily basis over several years.

That's all I was saying.It's no big deal.




I'm not saying that he said to give publicity ... but it's a book: editors and ... who knows? ... After all, I'm not denying it but it seems exaggerated to me and 'cos it's in a book ... that's all   ... forget it ...

John appears in both, I think ... it's not important, anyway ... I was trying to put things on the table ...   ... forget it too ...

I know one or two things (probably not more) about these people I called The Guys ... I know who was Tony and by saying met I was trying to say met/knew/talked to/made love to/ or whatever else ... I mean, was he the only one with the right to say how they/he was or maybe there are two or three more people who can give us a review ...? ...   ...again, forget it ...

Surely that in our whole life we all would have been almost all the posible roles with multiple sides but the predominant ones are which define us, I think ... and to know a person you might need to be with him/her/it more than some hours every day ... you need to be in diferent situations and states of mind ... specially if we're talking about a rock star ... I'm not saying that Tony didn't ... but some anecdotes (bad or good ones) don't give a complete image of a person ... Perhaps it's a not matter of cuantity of anecdotes or facts but the quality of them ... forget this only if you want ...  

Anyway, I understand your point of view but I believe than Paul could be worse than John ...  
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raxo
December 26, 2006, 6:48pm Report to Moderator
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Mick: Why don't we do something together? ... apart from taking drugs, guys?
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pc31
March 4, 2007, 6:36am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from raxo


Yep, ... It's clear (to me) that in the big brown bag line Paul is refering to economic business ... and surely to Brian ... tho it was an inner joke it was a too clear one for all of them ...

What it's weird to me is that I think that it doesn't fit too much with Paul's writing style at that period ... maybe in 1970-1971 but when they recorded Baby You're A Rich Man Brian was still alive and their business had not been working too well ...

IF it's so it would be very cruel ... but Paul could be -let's say- un-polite when he wanted ... and we know that he was -at least once- with Brian.

the brown bag may refer to eppys suggestion to brown bag pepper too.....



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Buttmunker
September 4, 2007, 2:54am Report to Moderator
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I've always loved the song, too.  I felt that it faded out too quick, just as the chorus was getting very energetic (wow, woh) - I wonder if a longer version exists?
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BlueMeanie
September 4, 2007, 10:37am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Buttmunker
I've always loved the song, too.  I felt that it faded out too quick, just as the chorus was getting very energetic (wow, woh) - I wonder if a longer version exists?


Not that I've heard. There are several versions available on bootlegs, but they're all around the 3 minute mark. Different mixes, mono, stereo, etc. but nothing earth shattering. It was recorded and mixed in a single day (pretty fast compared to all the Pepper songs it followed) for the Yellow Submarine movie, and as the b-side to All You Need Is Love.


I just want you to reassure him - talk to him, make him see the error of his ways. Then I'll hit him.
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Buttmunker
September 4, 2007, 12:52pm Report to Moderator
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Well, maybe someday.  After all, the extended version of "Yellow Submarine" took til 1996 to be available for public consumption (it was the B-side to "Real Love").
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BlueMeanie
September 4, 2007, 1:51pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Buttmunker
Well, maybe someday.


I wouldn't hold your breath. I think I've heard almost everything worth hearing from that session (recorded in 12 takes) and what you want doesn't exist.


I just want you to reassure him - talk to him, make him see the error of his ways. Then I'll hit him.
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Buttmunker
September 4, 2007, 1:58pm Report to Moderator
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the producer, or the engineer, or even the Beatles called for a fade when they did on that song.  Its not extra material, like a verse or spoken dialog that's missing, just the end of the song.  I'm sure it exists.  Just like all the "false starts" exist and what-not.  If they re-release "Baby You're A Rich Man," they could always decide to let the song run a few seconds longer before they fade the song out...
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Pasta Cheif
September 5, 2007, 5:50pm Report to Moderator

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JOHN 1968: "In 'Baby You're a Rich Man' the point was, stop moaning. You're a rich man and we're all rich men, heh, heh, baby!"


JOHN 1980: "That's a combination of two seperate pieces, Paul's and mine, put together and forced into one song. One-half was all mine. (sings) 'How does it feel to be one of the beautiful people/ Now that you know who you are...' Then Paul comes in with, (sings) 'Baby you're a rich man,' which was a lick he had around."


Mick Jagger also came to just stand on the sidelines and watch and listen to The Beatles recording Baby You're A Rich Man in May 1967. Mark Lewisohn says Mick's name is even on the Beatles tape box for this song and that it's feasible he sang at the end verses!






"Dont take life seriously, you'll never get out of it alive"
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