Quoted from GreenApple

I heard that the theory was later discredited, but also heard that they did interbreed with humans because remains of humans and neanderthals were found together in Europe.

I think only matching DNA or the discovery of a conclusive hybrid skeleton would be acceptable for proof. The coexistance of the remins mentioned could be mean many things - that Neanderthals and us (can't distinguish neanderthals as non-human) might have shared the same cave at different times, one could have eaten or enslaved the other or animals or water could have dragged/washed the bones to the same spot. And they might have shagged (sorry to be so technical ) but due to anatomical/genetic differences not produced offspring.

Quoted from GreenApple

I heard that the theory was later discredited, but also heard that they did interbreed with humans because remains of humans and neanderthals were found together in Europe.

I didn't think enough before I wrote it; I should have said co-existed.

Quoted from GreenApple

I didn't think enough before I wrote it; I should have said co-existed.

I thought that was a bit rash for you .
I certainly hope so - I like the picture of two groups awkwardly approaching each other, reducing the tension with a bit of sign language, then them all sitting around the fire trading tools and food.

BUT - we all know humans. I don't go for the genocide theory, but they could have easily just chased the neanderthals off. But I think human populations were so sparse that that doesn't make sense to me - as long as they weren't directly competing for the same resources (neanderthals were stay-put oppotunists while cromagnums were herd chasers) it makes more sense to maintain contact (like hunter gatherers today. They see strangers mostly as oppotunities, not threats.) But I would be very suprised if they coexisted to the point of sharing accomodation etc. They were just too different (we don't even know if neandertals could talk. If they didn't have expressive language they may not have had expressive thought. They might well have just sat there like village idiots. Or not. Their brains were bigger than ours) Sorry to go on, but I love this subject.

It's not going on - it's interesting. I never knew that hunter-gatherers saw strangers as opportunities. Maybe that's what's behind the neanderthals being apparently gentler, and quite possibly vulnerable to we aggressive cromagnums. I hope there's a bit of neanderthal in us all!

Quoted from GreenApple

It's not going on - it's interesting. I never knew that hunter-gatherers saw strangers as opportunities. Maybe that's what's behind the neanderthals being apparently gentler, and quite possibly vulnerable to we aggressive cromagnums. I hope there's a bit of neanderthal in us all!

Oh so do I. But there's a danger - in the 30's and 40's people believed that different human "races" were the product of different local evolutionary paths - thus some humans were more human than others. But since the sixties the trend has been we all came from Africa and underneath our skins we're all the same. Love and peace. But if they find that Europeans ARE geneticly different from say Asians or Africans, the rascists will be able to open their arguement again- that we're NOT all the same underneath, that you can't lump us all under one name. Tis a dodgy road we hove.
The hunter-gatherer thing - if you're an isolated small tribe (which they always are) strangers present oppotunities for trade and knowledge and potential partners. They're generally too valuable to kill.

I think it's really interesting (and quite telling) how our evolutionary views reflect the current state of society (is it an accident that in the peace loving sixties we came to the conclusion that humans were just one big happy family, while in the nasty genocidal 30's and 40's were thought ourselves profoundly different?)
Are we just seeing what society is conditioning us to see?
I don't think Chinese anthropologists subscribe to the out-of-africa theory. They believe themselves descended from their local homo-erectus population. From their cultural perspective discovery, adventure and innovation aren't seen as advances.

In recent years I've noticed both that, there is a theory that we might have followed different paths in different places after all, and that the Chinese anthropologists see the Chinese as having a different path.

As for the first, it will be worrying if modern genetic techniques show some truth in it. Especially if people react against globalisation (which isn't all bad capitalism, as some make out). As for the second, I can say from living in China that they are nationalistic, proud and can be exclusivistic in their thinking. And with China becoming foremost in the world and globalisation...

But let's hold onto the fact that we are all in fact of the same origin because all humans can successfully interbreed! I share your concerns.

wots up kevman....how have you been?give up the herb?wot are you feck crazy????oh yeah you are...but why did you dump mary jane????

Quoted from pc31

wots up kevman....how have you been?give up the herb?wot are you feck crazy????oh yeah you are...but why did you dump mary jane????

The b**** was dragging me down. My get up and go got up and went. I'm still a "special occassion" smoker - I'm taking some camping with me in few weeks. But I'm an all or nothing kind of guy, if it's in the house I'll smoke it morning noon and night,  always chasing the dragon.
God I miss her. Oh for a smooth glide down....

I'm gone for a week. Intended to go camping (found a farm that lets you light fires, so I was going to do the caveman thing.)
But it's supposed to be snow and subzero temperatrures, and while I've been telling myself neanderthals couldn't just pack up and go home I have to admit defeat. Bugger. But I think I'll do the London tourist thing - catch some movies, go to a few museums (love the British musuem), eat some nice food.
Be good.

I THINK YOU'RE THE FATHER OF ONE OF MY KIDS...


A guy goes to the supermarket and notices an attractive woman waving at him.
She says, "Hello" and he's rather taken back because he can't place where he knows her.

He says, "Do you know me?"

She replies, "I think you're the father of one of my kids."

Now his mind travels back to the only time he has ever been unfaithful to his wife and says, "My God!  Are you the stripper from my bachelor party that I made love to on the pool table with all my buddies watching while your partner whipped my butt with a wet celery stalk?"

She looks into his eyes and says calmly, "No. I'm your son's teacher."

Very funny.

You survived, Kevin?

hurricane kevin? how was you camping trip?me and my boy chucky have a cub scout one this weekend....when i was a boy scout i loved camping now i ain't so sure i like the primitive conditions...

Quoted from pc31

hurricane kevin? how was you camping trip?me and my boy chucky have a cub scout one this weekend....when i was a boy scout i loved camping now i ain't so sure i like the primitive conditions...

Much to my shame I bottled it.
I've always loved camping. Sitting around a fire, picking crap out of your coffee - can't be beaten. Trying to con the girlfriend into going but she's a snob and refuses tro sh*t in the woods.