I don't expect anyone here to give a damn about this, but what the heck.

Usually I'm bitching about American politics here, and I can understand that for Americans it's annoying when foreigners talk sh*t about what's going on in their country... So this is your chance to discuss Dutch politics!   Cause we've got our elections this Wednesday.

The Dutch political system is very different from the American system. Our country is ran by a parliament called the Tweede Kamer (Second Room). It's got 150 seats. This year we have 24 political parties, and you can give your vote to one of them. Each party gets 1 seat in the parliament for every 2/3 of a percentage of all the votes they get (10 percentage of the votes = 15 seats, etc.). After the elections we must have a coalition that has the majority of all the seats so that it can run the country. This means that some parties (usually 2, 3 or 4) have to combine forces after the elections to get at least 76 seats together.

The current polls:
1. CDA (christian democrats) - 45 seats
2. PvdA (labour party) - 35 seats
3. SP (socialists) - 24 seats
4. VVD (liberals) - 20 seats
5. Groen Links (green party) - 9 seats
6. ChristenUnie (orthodox protestants) - 5 seats
7. Partij van de Vrijheid (liberal conservative nationalists) - 4 seats
8. Fortuyn (liberal conservative nationalists) - 2 seats
9. SGP (orthodox protestants) - 2 seats
10. D66 (progressive social-liberals) - 2 seats
11. Partij voor de Dieren (animal rights party) - 1 seat
12. EenNL (liberal conservative nationalists) - 1 seat
Other parties - no seats

Currently we have a CDA-VVD-D66 coalition that has been way too anti-social for my taste... The new coalition will probably be CDA-PvdA which I think will probably be better. But I'm still hoping for a left coalition with PvdA-SP-Groen Links and maybe ChristenUnie and Partij voor de Dieren.

So this is your chance to talk sh*t about our politics.  

liberal conservative nationalist? is that even possible?

Quoted from somedude210

liberal conservative nationalist? is that even possible?

Quoted Text

Liberal conservatism is a variant of conservatism that combines the classical conservative concern for established tradition, respect for authority and, sometimes, religious values with liberal ideas, especially on economic issues (see economic liberalism, which advocates free market capitalism).

Liberal conservatism usually takes hold among conservatives in countries where liberal economic ideas are considered traditional, and therefore conservative.

In countries with large liberal conservative movements that have entered the political mainstream, the terms "liberal" and "conservative" may become synonymous (as in Australia and in Italy), or they may be redefined such that liberal conservatives keep one of them and the other is taken up by a different group (as in the United States, where liberal conservatives use the term "conservative", and "liberal" is generally used to refer to American liberalism, a social liberal movement).

The liberal conservative tradition in the United States combines the economic individualism of the classical liberals with a Burkean form of conservatism (which has also become part of the American conservative tradition, for example in the writings of Russell Kirk).

Liberal conservative political parties exist in a number of countries, and they are usually most entrenched in Anglo-Saxon cultures.

At the 2006 Conservative Party Conference in Bournemouth, England, party leader David Cameron emphasised his credentials as a Liberal Conservative and stated that he was "not a neo-conservative".

oh...well that blows, i thought they were like conservative on the economy and liberal socially

Go greens!!      man

I'm confused about your parties. I mean, Christian Democrats and Orthodox Protestants? So you don't have separation of religion and government? Sorry if I'm not understanding.

Politics with the bible as a base.

sounds choatic...nice swing bobber!!!

Oh, it is chaos in a certain way. It would be better if there were just two party's, like in the USA. Or better: one, like in the good old Sovjet Union.  

too many choices can cause main issues to be non resolved...it sounds primitive......

It's a leftover from a hundred years ago. Our nation was divided in all kinds of Christian and social classes. Catholics didn't want to have anything to do with protestants, who had all kind of sorts as well. A saying [translated]: Two religions on one pillow has the devil in between. Meaning marriages of two different religions could not work out. And the religions could be (and sometimes still are, in certain parts of the country) quite strict. This country has a biblebelt as well. Not everybody is smoking weed all day.    We have a choice of many parties tomorrow. I'm not even sure about the amount, I think around twenty.

NZ changed from the Westminster first past the post system to one similar to the Dutch. Both have good and bad points.
Westminster - almost always guaranteed a party that has enough votes for effective rule. Downside is if you vote for a loosing candidate you might as well not got out of bed.
Dutch system is good cos everyones votes count. Downside (so I'm told) that small parties can have positions of power way beyond their actual mandate. Pro-Westminster poeople always say that a Dutch-style system let Hitler into power.
Then again the 2 party system gave us Bush. But I don't understand the Electoral College thing the americans have.

Quoted from Bobber

Oh, it is chaos in a certain way. It would be better if there were just two party's, like in the USA.

I very strongly disagree. I think having 24 choices is much more democratic than 2 choices.

Quoted from Bobber

. Not everybody is smoking weed all day.  

Duh! I think we're all smart enough to see past that ridiculous stereotype.
Besides, if you were all stoned all day who would tend the tulips, open up  the clogg shops and repair the windmills ?
I'm tired of being treated like an idiot.

Quoted from Joost

I very strongly disagree. I think having 24 choices is much more democratic than 2 choices.

Duh! I think we're all smart enough to see past that ridiculous stereotype.
Besides, if you were all stoned all day who would tend the tulips, open up  the clogg shops and repair the windmills ?
I'm tired of being treated like an idiot.

Come on. I was only joking.

Quoted from Bobber

Come on. I was only joking.

Promise?

Quoted from Kevin

Promise?

Sure. You know my promises.    I haven't got a thread called 'Bobber's Promises' to remind me, have I?

Quoted from Bobber

Sure. You know my promises.    I haven't got a thread called 'Bobber's Promises' to remind me, have I?

You could seal it with a hug.

Cheers. I'm better now.
Do you own a pair of cloggs by the way?

Sure. Everybody in Holland has them!   And we all live in a windmill.

Now you're being silly.
When you go camping do you spread that chocolate sh*t over everything, or is that just the Germans?

Quoted from Kevin

Downside (so I'm told) that small parties can have positions of power way beyond their actual mandate. Pro-Westminster poeople always say that a Dutch-style system let Hitler into power.

That's true. Everyone can start his own party and participate in the elections. All you need to do is find 30 people in each of the 19 constituencies who want to support you, then you pay a 12.500 euro bond and you're in. And if you have charisma and you tell the people what they want to hear, you can go from nothing to one of the country's biggest parties in a matter of months, which can be dangerous. Because sometimes you have a party with a charasmatic leader that gets 20 or 30 seats, even though you don't know if the other 19 or 29 people that get those seats are any good.

Quoted from Bobber

I think around twenty.

24, but not all parties participate in the entire country.

Quoted from Kevin

Now you're being silly.
When you go camping do you spread that chocolate sh*t over everything, or is that just the Germans?

Hagelslag? No, that's us.  

Quoted from Kevin

Now you're being silly.
When you go camping do you spread that chocolate sh*t over everything, or is that just the Germans?

That's the Germans. Ask Kate. We spread peanutbutter over everything.

Oh, BP, sorry if I upset you. Didn't mean to.

I was thinking more that the need to form coalitions can make small parties kingmakers. Their ability to upset the balance of power can give them undue influence.

Quoted from Bobber

Oh, BP, sorry if I upset you. Didn't mean to.

Huh? When? Where?  

Quoted from Kevin

Duh! I think we're all smart enough to see past that ridiculous stereotype.
Besides, if you were all stoned all day who would tend the tulips, open up  the clogg shops and repair the windmills ?
I'm tired of being treated like an idiot.

Here and then.

That was Kevin?

Oh right! Sorry Kevin. I didn't mean to mistake you for BiscuitPower. Man, I making a mess here. Any objections if I delete all not relevant posts?  

Kneck and Bell. = types of gables.
Watch out for the f*cking trams.
Two things I learnt in Amsterdam.

Quoted from Bobber

Sorry Kevin. I didn't mean to mistake you for BiscuitPower.

So you're saying it must be an insult for Kevin to be mistaken for me?

NOW I'm insulted!  

Quoted from Joost

So you're saying it must be an insult for Kevin to be mistaken for me?
NOW I'm insulted!  

I apologized to you in advance.

http://dmbeatles.com/forums/b-conversations/m-1112239789/s-660/#num665

The elections had quite an interesting outcome:

CDA (christian democrats) 41 seats
PvdA (labour) 33 seats
SP (socialists) 25 seats
VVD (liberals) 22 seats
PvdV (nationalist liberals) 9 seats
GroenLinks (green party) 7 seats
ChristenUnie (relatively progressive orthodox protestants) 6 seats
D66 (progressive social-liberals) 3 seats
PvdD (animal party) 2 seats
SGP (conservative orthodox protestants) 2 seats
others no seats

So what this means:
- The only party that is pretty much certain of making the coalition is the CDA
- The PvdA only wants to join them in a coalition if the SP can join it as well
- CDA doesn't get along very well with the left (= PvdA, SP, GroenLinks)
- A right coalition is not an option because nobody wants too work with the PvdV (too radical) and on their own the CDA and VVD can never get a majority and of course none of the left parties will help them out here
- So unless the CDA is willing to make some serious compromises with the left they will never be able to come up with a stable coalition

A prediction: new elections.

Another prediction: CDA-PvdA-PvdD!

Would've been impossible a few hours ago, but today after a recount the SP lost one seat and the PvdA gained one.