Lately I've read a lot of Johns complaints that Paul's songs were constantly given more studio time than his, and that much more effort was put into the production of Macca's numbers than his. I've noticed lots of photos at Paul at the desk with Mr M, but can't recall any of John fiddling the knobs (though I'm sure someone will drag one out.) If he's right, was this because Paul got more involved in the production process than John, or was better at it, or simply got more time through force of personality? Or is John just being paranoid?
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Probably all these points Kevin. It's easy to complain about something if you cannay be bothered to get in there and do it yourself. By doing it yourself it gets done. I think Paul had to deal with that a lot 66 onwards. Never healthy to let one man control too much of the action though.
Better for a band to have these two attitudes. It does seem Paul worked for his songs whereas John was that bit more naturally inventive and vague. I'll always love em best when they work together though, which sadly, was not as often as i grew up believing.
Wonder what Giles Martin thinks about this. I did read he was more of a Who & Zep fan.....surely he's just trying to be too cool! lol
I've often thought those shots were more for PR than anything. "Paul at the board." Those boards were so primitive. I guess they maybe ran some tube compression, tape echo, but alot of the "effects" were created naturally in the studio. Maybe Paul fiddled around with levels but the real trick on four or even eight track machines was getting a good mix on a rhythm track (or backup vocals).
Basically the men in white coats (Geoff Emerick) knew what mike to use and how to mike an instrument/voice. The studios were also very warm (for their size).
The odd thing is, for being a "studio" band post 1967, the Beatles still cut alot of their stuff essentially "live" and then used the extra tracks for sweetener. You can really hear this on basic tracks on the Anthology from the Sgt. Pepper era.
I'm betting that Paul mostly dominated the parts everyone was supposed to play (on his songs) and was a real stickler for perfection (all the takes of Maxwell's Silver Hammer). Paul could do 87 takes of a song. John would do a dozen and then say sod off. (Think of Paul and him working on Ballad of John and Yoko where Paul couldn't get the "think" stop right--but they finally got it right after about ten takes).
I feel sorry for George and Ringo having to be human jukeboxes playing these parts again and again to get down a rhythm track. But I guess that 1.6% was worth it.
Well heres a photo of John showing Sean the studio in 1980 and theres another one somewhere with John Sitting at it on his own. I always thought john would be a permanant figure around the mixing desk, for the experimental musical reason (eg, revolution 9/two virgins), and never thought Paul would outshadow him in that. like someone once said about John 'He grew to love the studio'.
I've often thought those shots were more for PR than anything. "Paul at the board." Those boards were so primitive. I guess they maybe ran some tube compression, tape echo, but alot of the "effects" were created naturally in the studio. Maybe Paul fiddled around with levels but the real trick on four or even eight track machines was getting a good mix on a rhythm track (or backup vocals).
I disagree. PR? Come on. Its been noted mucho times that Paul was the first to dabble in the tape loops and things like that. I just feel that he was more interested with learning the trade and especially when it benefitted his own material. Ego's aside, i'm sure he would have helped the others out too if they asked, but that wasnt going to happen.
You're right. I knew PR was too strong when I wrote it, but left it in anyway.
I think the Beatles happened to come along just when the old mono/stereo live recording system was going out the window in favor of studio "tracking." It certainly influenced how they recorded, say, compared to Frank Sinatra with a Nelson Riddle band.
"Tracking" put a heavier emphasis on instrumentation of parts (something Paul really excelled in). I think John and George lost alot when they lost Paul (who wouldn't want the guy to come up with great bass parts for your songs--I wonder what Paul would have done on albums like Imagine or All Things Must Pass--let alone come up with little fills off the top of his head like the trumpets(?) on Penny Lane).
But I still think that the Beatles in the booth pics were shot to reinforce the idea (particularly in the ads for Let It Be/Get Back that they were "running the show."
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By learning the mixing desk, (even a little) it becomes easier to describe to the real masters of the desk what it is that you want as TK put so concisely. When you hear the Toot n Snore in 74 bootleg you can hear Lennon's request for a bit of reverb in the cans. Although they may well have been coked out of it, it gives an insight as to how John communicated with his engineers.
A good engineer with good ears is worth his/her wait in gold. For anyone dabbling in mixing desk, it is very hard to be the artist, engineer and producer. Thank goodness for Jedi George Martin whose taste in matters often saved what could have been 'ordinary' work by any bands standards at times.
There are some great pics of Lennon at the desk too from those Abbey photo's right? I must do some more diggin in me archives.
I've often thought those shots were more for PR than anything. "Paul at the board." Those boards were so primitive. I guess they maybe ran some tube compression, tape echo, but alot of the "effects" were created naturally in the studio. Maybe Paul fiddled around with levels but the real trick on four or even eight track machines was getting a good mix on a rhythm track (or backup vocals).
Basically the men in white coats (Geoff Emerick) knew what mike to use and how to mike an instrument/voice. The studios were also very warm (for their size).
The odd thing is, for being a "studio" band post 1967, the Beatles still cut alot of their stuff essentially "live" and then used the extra tracks for sweetener. You can really hear this on basic tracks on the Anthology from the Sgt. Pepper era.
I'm betting that Paul mostly dominated the parts everyone was supposed to play (on his songs) and was a real stickler for perfection (all the takes of Maxwell's Silver Hammer). Paul could do 87 takes of a song. John would do a dozen and then say sod off. (Think of Paul and him working on Ballad of John and Yoko where Paul couldn't get the "think" stop right--but they finally got it right after about ten takes).
I feel sorry for George and Ringo having to be human jukeboxes playing these parts again and again to get down a rhythm track. But I guess that 1.6% was worth it.
It's not just Paul's songs. There are over a hundred takes of Not Guilty...
(In Foghorn Leghorn voice) Gentlemen, I say, gentleman, I stand corrected!
But I think the way they recorded (take after take) had to sap the life out of them. Maybe if they'd truly recorded parts--drums, then bass, etc.--they wouldn't have squabbled so much.
All I can say is that I wouldn't mind runing through "Not Guilty" or "Sexy Sadie" a few more times than "Maxwell."
[...] I've noticed lots of photos at Paul at the desk with Mr M, but can't recall any of John fiddling the knobs (though I'm sure someone will drag one out.) [...]
I've heard George Martin talk one time about how John didn't work as closely with him as Paul did. He said that Paul would work out every detail on the piano with him while Lennon would basically say what he was looking for. for example, Martin said that Lennon said of "Mr. Kite" that it's "a circus song so make it sound like a circus." also, Paul was very instrumental in the arrangement of strings in his songs whereas I think John just left that up to George Martin.
It's great...it sold...it's the bloody Beatles' White Album, shut up
They had different points of view about recording studios ... John wanted to just record live during the Get Back project (like they did in their days in Liverpool with a recorder) and he loved pure rock and roll (no much room for arrangements there, I'm afraid) ... he was an old-fashioned guy ... or, at least, that's the image lots of people had of him ... even maybe him ...
They had different points of view about recording studios ... John wanted to just record live during the Get Back project (like they did in their days in Liverpool with a recorder) and he loved pure rock and roll (no much room for arrangements there, I'm afraid) ... he was an old-fashioned guy ... or, at least, that's the image lots of people had of him ... even maybe him ...
Ah yes, John the Honest Rock'n'Roller. Yet it was he who wanted a thousand chanting Tibetan Monks or music to sound like an upside down orange (or whatever). I am The Walrus, Day in The Life, TNK, Rev#9, Because, Sun King...
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