Didn't somebody just post a quote from Dylan talking about how amazed he is by Paul McCartney? Wasn't that here? I think the Beatles would have evolved without Dylan, but there's no doubt he was an important influence. I think Lennon would have eventually gone that route as he tended to write about himself and what he was feeling.  I think everything that happened in the late sixties (in the US) was an influence on them. Everyone became more outspoken. Bob was just doing it a few years earlier than most.

As much as I love Bob, you have to put his achievement as a songwriter into the context of the Beat movement and the big debt he owes to Allen Ginsberg, in particular, from whom Bob adapted the prophetic persona, French symbolist imagery and post-Whitman long line structure.  

As that pic with Baez shows, Bob's a short little fellar, but he stands on pretty big shoulders.  

Quoted from adamzero

As much as I love Bob, you have to put his achievement as a songwriter into the context of the Beat movement and the big debt he owes to Allen Ginsberg, in particular, from whom Bob adapted the prophetic persona, French symbolist imagery and post-Whitman long line structure.  

  

No man is an island - everyone has an influence. Whatever context you put his songwriting into it changed a generation. Everyones got a big debt to someone.

Parents usually.

Quoted from Sandra

Didn't somebody just post a quote from Dylan talking about how amazed he is by Paul McCartney? Wasn't that here? I think the Beatles would have evolved without Dylan, but there's no doubt he was an important influence. I think Lennon would have eventually gone that route as he tended to write about himself and what he was feeling.  I think everything that happened in the late sixties (in the US) was an influence on them. Everyone became more outspoken. Bob was just doing it a few years earlier than most.

I don't think there's any guarantee of that. Before he started listening to Dylan Johns lyric was very much aimed at his tenny bopper audience. When he decided to be Bob everything changed - the way he wrote (like bob) the way he sang (like Bob) the way he dressed (like Bob). Of course he might have eventually gotten  the idea from somewhere else, if someone else with Bobs genius had emerged in the vaccuum. But I really don't think that person would have been John Lennon.

Quoted from Mairi

At the same time, we have to acknowledge the Beatles' influence on Bob. He has stated before that it was hearing the lads that re-kindled his interest in rock and roll.

Totally agree. The Beatles inspired Bob to pick up an electric guitar. Bob inspired The Beatles to change the way they made music. Fair swap.

This is all fanofthefab4's fault by the way. Before she got me reading that article by that guy who's name I can't remember I was happy in the belief that The Beatles were the most innovative, important thing EVER to happen to rock, perhaps to the universe. Now I've got seeds of doubt, and everything I  took as a given I'm looking at anew. I thought I have just believed what I have been told and had never looked at things for myself. Bits of me now think that things like the sitar and backward tapes are just silly little trends made popular by a band elevated to greatness on the back of Beatlemania, which had less to do with music than image and time.
I need an intervention! I need hands upon me! I am lost.
But I swear, if I hear Imagine one more time or see one more story about that bloody piano I'll puke.

Quoted from Kevin

Bits of me now think that things like the sitar and backward tapes are just silly little trends made popular by a band elevated to greatness on the back of Beatlemania, which had less to do with music than image and time.

Most of me thinks this!!

I generally think that everything about The Beatles should be taken a little less seriously. Sometimes people are beyond reproach, as far as the press go for instance. If someone had dared to give a crap reveiw to 'Love You Too', or suggested that the sound engineer must have got his tapes mixed up on 'I'm Only Sleeping' then they'd probably never have done it again.

Quoted from Sandra

Didn't somebody just post a quote from Dylan talking about how amazed he is by Paul McCartney? [...]

Quoted from raxo

Bob Dylan talks about Paul to Rolling Stone:

"....Hard to find a better singer than [John] Lennon was or McCartney was and still is. I mean I'm in awe of McCartney. He's about the only one that I am in awe of. But I'm in awe of him. He can do it all and he's never let up, you know. He's got the gift for melody, he's got the rhythm. He can play any instrument. He can scream and shout as good as anybody and he can sing the ballad as good as anybody, you know so... And his melodies are, you know, effortless. That's what you have to be in awe... I'm in awe of him maybe just because he's just so damn effortless. I mean I just wish he'd quit, you know. [laughs] Just everything and anything that comes out of his mouth is just framed in a melody, you know ..."

from here: http://dmbeatles.com/forums/b-mccartney/m-1176284442/s-60/

Since some said that Paul sounds as an old man on Ever Present Past I thought that that one was the thread to post this at ...

The question and complete answer were these:

In the 40th Anniversary issue of Rolling Stone magazine, Dylan was asked:

"RS: What was your relationship with John Lennon like? Somewhat competitive?

Bob: "Yeah. Only to a certain extent, but not really. Him and McCartney both, really, they were fantastic singers. Lennon, to this day, it's hard to find a better singer than Lennon was, or than McCartney was and still is. I'm in awe of McCartney. He's about the only one that I am in awe of. He can do it all. And he's never let up. He's got the gift for melody, he's got the rhythm, he can play any instrument. He can scream and shout as good as anybody. And his melodies are effortless, that's what you have to be in awe of...He's just so damn effortless. I just wish he'd quit [laughs]. Everything that comes out of his mouth is just framed in melody."

Quoted from raxo

Since some said that Paul sounds as an old man on Ever Present Past I thought that that one was the thread to post this at ...

That was me Rax. But this is what I actually said:

Quoted from BlueMeanie

The trouble with this is that we all know how Paul's voice used to sound, and what he could do with it. Can we accept it any other way? Cash never had a 'great' voice, and his took on a character and feeling all of it's own which I'm sure is what encouraged his and Rick Rubens' choice of songs. Paul's will never have that. In fact when unprocessed he's getting dangerously close to sounding like an old man with a cold.

Quoted from BlueMeanie

That was me Rax. But this is what I actually said:

You could be one of them but not the only one   ... before you said anything this was posted there (I don't like to give names so I've deleted author's name here )

Quoted Text

Cool. Definately a step up from Fine Line. Love the guitar riff - sounds quite modern. I'm a little critical of the vocals - a bit too processed and polished. Would have been better a bit rawer. Won't set the world on fire, but a good effort and should get some decent radio play (which after all is its job.) My score: 7/10.
Not bad for an old codger.

Quoted from Kevin

Totally agree. The Beatles inspired Bob to pick up an electric guitar. Bob inspired The Beatles to change the way they made music. Fair swap.

Were you being sarcastic there? I was just wondering. I'm not offended or anything, it's just hard to tell on the internet.

I think a lot of people don't realize how huge a deal it was for Bob to go electric. The electric guitar was a relatively new invention at the time and generally associated with mainstream rock and roll. Many folkies were outraged and furious, and thought Bob was a sell-out. You can see the concert footage and everything where he gets called "Judas", but still, many people forget what a big thing it was. The public responded more to Bob going electric than they did to any of the changes the Beatles made to themselves. (Except the Jesus comment)

I don't think it's as simple as all that. Bob had an influence mainly on Lennon and how he wrote lyrics. I don't think Bob's influence was all that encompassing. The Beatles were influenced by MANY things. They did things in the studio that Bob never even dreamed of. If Lennon became a more introspective lyricist thanks to Bob, than that's great but I think that's pretty much the end of it. I don't think Dylan changed the way the Beatles made music. Lennon copied his style only very briefly. McCartney had his own style and influences including things like the Beach Boys, avant garde and so on. Lennon also fed off of many influences and lets not forget about George. Dylan was just another piece of the puzzle. As for the political aspect of it, I think they would have spoken out sooner or later anyway. That's just the way the tide was turning.

I liked what Bob had to say about Paul.  Coming from Bob, well, that show's you where Paul really ranks--no matter what detractors may say.   Thanks for the link, Sandra.

BTW, there's a good bootleg of Bob and George doing "Yesterday" which some have called a send-up or a joke.  I think it's a fairly serious version, with Dylan really singing it (maybe thinking of using it on "Self-Portrait").  I also think it's a great adaptation that someone alt-country flavored should try out.  

Course I can't hear Bob doing "Maxwell's Silver Hammer" but who knows--maybe he could pull it off.

Quoted from Kevin

I need an intrervention! I need hands upon me! I am lost.

Here you go, Kevin! Step into the healing hands. You will be cured of excessive Beatles admiration forever, just like Blue Meanie!