Whew, when I think about it, McCartney is sure one classic case of "passive aggressive."  I guess Lennon, too, for that matter, but not as bad.

Listening to songs like Should've Known Better ("...That when I tell you that I love you, oh,
You're gonna say you love me too") Oh, really?

or songs like I'll Get You ("...It's not like me to pretend,
But I'll get you in the end,
Yes I will, I'll get you in the end, oh yeh, oh yeh.

I think about you night and day,
I need you and it's true.
When I think about you, I can say,
I'm never, never, never, never blue.

So I'm telling you, my friend,
That I'll get you, I'll get you in the end,
Yes I will, I'll get you in the end...") Obsess much?

Even George Harrison got into the act with You Like Me Too Much (...If you leave me
I will follow you
And bring you back where you belong") you can't leave me because I'll just find you and drag you back!

they're quite chilling when taken out of context. We all know how Charles Manson interpeted Blackbird, Piggies and Helter Skelter.

Paul takes the cake with his solo career #1 hit, With A Little Luck, as you'll see below.

With A Little Luck is downright suggestive towards 9/11 and Columbine. Observe the lyrics, if you will:

With a little luck, we can help it out.
We can make this whole damn thing work out. [Saddam's plan]
With a little love, we can lay it down.
Can't you feel the town exploding? [World Trade Center]
There is no end to what we can do together.
There is no end, there is no end.
The wiliow turns his back on inclement weather;
And if he can do it, we can do it, just me and you,

And a little luck, we can clear it up.
We can bring it in for a landing, [9/11]
With a little luck, we can turn it on.
There can be no misunderstanding. [can't misunderstand terrorist intention]

There is no end to what we can do together. [Columbine killers wanting to live infamously]
There is no end, there is no end.
The willow turns his back on inclement weather;
We can do it, just me and you.

With a little push, we could set it off. [Columbine]
We can send it rocketing skywards.
With a little love, we could shake it up.
Don't you feel the comet exploding?

Way to deep for me right now. I'll have to come to this one after a few brews and a smoke or two.

Quoted from Buttmunker

Whew, when I think about it, McCartney is sure one classic case of "passive aggressive."  I guess Lennon, too, for that matter, but not as bad.

Please tell me you're not serious about this?

Its more tongue-in-cheek than anything else.  While listening to "I should Have Known Better" years ago with a girlfriend, she pointed out the aggressiveness in the lyrics that I hadn't noticed before (or paid attention to), and I laughed.

Quoting Buttmunker:

"they're quite chilling when taken out of context. We all know how Charles Manson interpeted Blackbird, Piggies
With A Little Luck is downright suggestive towards 9/11 and Columbine. Observe the lyrics, if you will:

With a little luck, we can help it out.
We can make this whole damn thing work out. [Saddam's plan]
With a little love, we can lay it down.
Can't you feel the town exploding? [World Trade Center]"

But that's just the thing, man..you did "take them out of context"  are you kidding ? equating Beatle songs with acts of destruction like Columbine or the deeds of Saddam?? Get a GRIP!  The whole Manson "Helter Skelter" /"Piggies thing was born in the mind of CHARLES MANSON not Lennon/McCartney...or Harrison for that matter...he and his "family" twisted the meaning of Beatle lyrics for their own sick ends...how can you make these statements? The Beatles stood for LOVE, not hate ..UNITY, not division. I think your assertions are baseless. Didn't John himself say in Revolution, " When you talk about destruction..don't you know that you count me out.." YES I KNOW, IN THE ALTERNATE *VERSION* HE SAYS "YOU CAN COUNT ME OUT/IN"...but anyone with a modicum of intelligence knew he was being totally facetious.

Listen, I'm all for calling a spade a spade, and you can't refute the fact that sometimes, the Beatles came off as tough, dominant alpha-males in their words.  Aside from my "few" examples above, the song Run For Your Life is brimming with it:

Well I'd rather see you dead, little girl
than to be with another man
You better keep your head, little girl
or I won't know where I am

You better run for your life if you can, little girl
Hide your head in the sand little girl
Catch you with another man
That's the end'a little girl

Well I know that I'm a wicked guy
And I was born with a jealous mind
And I can't spend my whole life
trying just to make you toe the line

You better run for your life if you can, little girl
Hide your head in the sand little girl
Catch you with another man
That's the end'a little girl

Let this be a sermon
I mean everything I've said
Baby, I'm determined
And I'd rather see you dead

You better run for your life if you can, little girl
Hide your head in the sand little girl
Catch you with another man
That's the end'a little girl

I'd rather see you dead, little girl
than to be with another man
You better keep your head, little girl
or you won't know where I am

You better run for your life if you can, little girl
Hide your head in the sand little girl
Catch you with another man
That's the end'a little girl

Paul McCartney said he was glad all their songs was about "Peace, Love, and Understanding."  Guess he forgot all about the "stalker songs."

hmmm. Wasn't everyone then writing songs what we would now consider a tad chauvinistic?
Dylans "Just Like a woman"? The Stones "Yesterdays Papers" and "Under My Thumb"?
I think "coming off as tough dominant alpha males" was just par for the course in them days.
But I agree that Paul was a bit off the mark in saying all Beatle songs were about peace and love.

Quoted from Kevin

hmmm. Wasn't everyone then writing songs what we would now consider a tad chauvinistic?
Dylans "Just Like a woman"? The Stones "Yesterdays Papers" and "Under My Thumb"?
I think "coming off as tough dominant alpha males" was just par for the course in them days.

Agree Kevin , they were different times , i think large amount of the male population was chauvanistic then.

DaveRam

Quoted from 679

Agree Kevin , they were different times , i think large amount of the male population was chauvanistic then.

DaveRam

It's cringingly funny now when you watch James Bond - no matter how much the girl says "no", just keep groping and forcing your tongue down her throat, because she will always end up saying "yes."

Quoted from Buttmunker

Paul takes the cake with his solo career #1 hit, With A Little Luck, as you'll see below.

With A Little Luck is downright suggestive towards 9/11 and Columbine. Observe the lyrics, if you will:

Ok now that's funny. You are joking right? How does he "take the cake"? If the song is suggestive of events that took place 20 years hence, then this can only mean:
1) Paul has has the ability to see into the future, or
2) People will fix meanings to anything if they try hard enough.

But I feel a bit silly. If you are joking I look a clown for coming across all serious. But hey, I'll take the plunge in the interests of good conversation. Though I'm sure I can feel a hook in my mouth.

Go with option 2.  I don't think Paul can see into the future.

I have never liked "Run For Your Life" due to its misogynist lyrics. When I brought it up in this forum a while ago, no one else seemed particularly bothered. I am pleased it came in as a tie for last place in our Song Survivor contest.

You know, everyone has fantasies. If Lennon wanted to fantasize about blowing away his unfaithful girlfriend, well, lots of people have that one. I do think that people who promulgate their views should take extra care in the kind of public influence they are setting. Yes, I understand that is self-censorship. I would call it "responsibility".

But I realize I will never get agreement on this issue. I had a long debate with a friend of mine who writes really disgusting horror stuff-- you know, the kind of crap your unimaginative copy-cat artists will pull out because they're too stupid to think up their own atrocities. He got all shirty with me and pointed out he was writing fiction. He was not influencing society, he was reflecting it. Ah-hah. Okay. The trouble is, if you're an award-winning author, people might listen to you, or think what you say is cool. People who might never have thought of this thing are now thinking about it. So I have a little trouble in drawing that line.

The best cure for that is to think about Stephen King.  Sure, people could be influenced to take a rouque mallet and chase after your family (ala The Shining), but nobody really does.  Same thing with horror movies - if I was put away for blowing people away in their beds with a toy rifle after imitating what Ron DeFeo did in "The Amityville Horror," I guess I wouldn't be here to write this.  I'd be in the looney bin being analyzed.

You can't blame movies, books, or lyrics on people's actions.  A song like "Run For Your Life" may not be the most oft-mentioned Beatle song, but it still has a neat hook.  There's a saying: f*** em if they can't take a joke.

Haha .. yeah my girlfriend always hated the lyrics to 'Run For Your Life'. I agree though with above posters that it is just tongue and cheek, not meant in a literal or serious way.

and Lennon admitted himself that Run For Your Life was
a throwaway lyric & didn't mean anything.

Bear in mind that the first line came from the song Baby Let's Play House. So that was not originally written by John. But he must have liked the line enough to start his song with and used it as an inspiration.

^ *points up at all the comments defending these lyrics* See what I mean? (Not arguing, just pointing out what I meant when I said that I will never get people to agree with me on this.)

I did not know John copped the line from Baby Let's Play House. I'm not sure if that makes me more or less comfortable! It is clearly a sentiment that is still out there. Yes, writing does reflect the values of a culture.

Oh, but I don't disagree with you!

Thanks. I just think people don't appreciate how powerful language is. Reading history often sets the perspective for me. We're all people of our time, but to read about Abraham Lincoln earnestly telling a black delegation to the White House that they really must return to Africa, because he can't imagine a world where black people and white people can sit at the same table... it really drives in for me how much we are all people of our time, with our societally acceptable prejudices and remarks. I think (hope) that over time the notion of killing your girlfriend for doing the same thing you do will be looked at as so appallingly behind-the-times as Honest Abe being unable to imagine peaceful co-existance between people of different races. I also happen to think that if Abe could be transported through time to see Colin Powell serving as the US Secretary of State, he would be delighted.

Quoted from harihead

I have never liked "Run For Your Life" due to its misogynist lyrics. When I brought it up in this forum a while ago, no one else seemed particularly bothered. I am pleased it came in as a tie for last place in our Song Survivor contest.

You know, everyone has fantasies. If Lennon wanted to fantasize about blowing away his unfaithful girlfriend, well, lots of people have that one. I do think that people who promulgate their views should take extra care in the kind of public influence they are setting. Yes, I understand that is self-censorship. I would call it "responsibility".

Yeah, always thought the lyrics to this great Rubber Soul song was a bit rough--even when I first heard it at age 12, the month the album came out in Dec. '65. As the years went by, I really got used to John's sardonic sense if humour. I certainly don't take it seriously--and would never call John of ALL  people a misogynist (and I know you're not either, hari) John's humour was biting (to say the least) but his bark was worse than his bite. "Norwegian Wood" is certainly a good example of this: "So I lit the fire isn't it good, Norwergian Wood?"-- the fictional "bird" brushes him off so he sets her house ablaze!!...that's more amusing than alarming. Poetic justice in the Lennon sense--no more than that.  Perhaps a now impossible in-depth psychological study on John might reveal some latent love/hate issues with mum Julia (maybe for being the absentee matriarchal figure--and then dying so tragically on him). It's possible John still had some residual resentment for females during The Fab's middle period, but I really believe all that certainly died out by the time "Julia" came out in '68 on TWA (this was one of his most loving songs..to a female obviously--the most important one before he met Yoko..his mother) Of course this is all merely guesswork on my part, but I don't think John Lennon was a true misogynist. At least I feel the advent of Yoko in his life brought real change and self-reflection (case in point, no one could claim John wasn't pro-woman by the 70's with such songs as "Woman Is The N***** Of The World"--or even later in all his deeply poignant songs to Yoko culminating in the more personal Double Fantasy tracks..
No, John was not a hater...but he was simply much better than most, certainly in the artistic sense, of expressing his past hurt w/ unrestrained abandon, if you will. It was merely his fear of being abandoned by women which possibly might've been the driving force behind some of his darker stuff: "hide your face in the sand little girl, catch u w/another man, that's the end..little girl" --TOUGH WORDS, I agree w/ you, but let's be real..what man (or for that matter what person hasnt felt this way at least once in his life ? (I know I have ...even recently !) John the Beatle had the ability and opportunity to merely express personal frustration in a global spotlight. Misogynist? No. Human. Yes. Remember...this is the SAME man who wrote "All You Need Is Love" two years after "Run For Your Life".

I once wrote a song about killing someone because he wouldn't be with me. Would I actually do that? No. I am 100% pacifist all the way. I think we have to be able to distinguish fiction from reality when it comes to these things.

Quoted from Andy Smith

and Lennon admitted himself that Run For Your Life was
a throwaway lyric & didn't mean anything.

Exacly, people take things too seriously. Ofcourse John wouldn't really do that. It's just a song, a very good song. I might be the only one but I actualy like it even though the lyrics are a bit hard to listen to but I think it makes the song better. the world isn't all butterflies and rainbows.

In this PC world we now live in you forget that all mannor of language was used to describe situations not so long ago , i remember Till Death As Do Part and Alf Garnet ranting his racist abuse on primetime TV in the 60's and early 70's  . Lennon probably did'nt give it a second thought at the time of writing as such views re race and women were commonly held then ?

DaveRam

Quoted from The walrus

the world isn't all butterflies and rainbows.

true, very true! i don't go around every day feeling wonderful &
loving everybody! i can be a right a** at times i admit but
isn't that everybody!