Quoted from 829

but by Spring of that same year they were fully enjoying the entire recording of Abbey Road together--it was like "old times".  

I don't think so. Apart from basic backing tracks, they were never all in the studio at the same time. In fact John remarked that the best thing to do with Abbey Road was to put all his songs on one side, and Paul's on the other!

Quoted from fendertele

a lot of his songs sound very ray davies like, songs like polythene pam and mean mr mustard?

But songs about quirky characters were all the rage.  Eleanor Rigby, SF Sorrow, Arnold Lane, Tommy. Maybe just John following a trend?

Quoted from tkitna

Thanks for the history lesson and its no myth.

you're welcome...  anytime. It's all in Paul's autobigraphy. He claims that Let It Be was the real hell, not A.R.

Unless macca was putting a more congenial face on things (which he was apt to do sometimes) I got this info from the horse's mouth not my imagination..
Unless of course John was inwardly sour from from L.I.B. and well into the Abbey Road sessions, the McCartney "spin" on the relative mood of the final record has something to do w/ his (macca's) "mother-hen" attitude of trying to keep the band together, I don't know--but I did read his account only--John wasnt giving many interviews during that period. If JL would've said more at the time, many fans would not hold this apparent misconception about the last LP-maybe Paul wasnt lying...perhaps he just saw things HIS way....possible.

Quoted from Kevin

But songs about quirky characters were all the rage.  Eleanor Rigby, SF Sorrow, Arnold Lane, Tommy. Maybe just John following a trend?

yes, but it never occurs to me the John would follow anyone else's trend--he was so original. It's very possible...but something tells me he would have wrote these ditties irregardless. He always took chances.

A tiny bit off topic here, perhaps, but 'Tomorrow Never Knows' seems faintly reminiscent of Ray's 'See My Friends', which came out first and was penned while visiting India. My whacky ear at it again, I suppose.

Quoted from tkitna

Paul pleaded for the band to make this last ditch effort and its not hard to see that he did the majority of the work here. 'Old Times' my a**.

I just took another gander at Anthology (DVD) and when they got to the section about the A. R. album, GEORGE f****** MARTIN HIMSELF says "it was a very happy album to make, that's why I'm very fond of it".

Ringo echoed those sentiments in that same Anthology segment.



your contention that John had "crawled so far up Yoko's ******" doesn't prove in the least a lesser degree of inspiration. If anything, a John Lennon in love was an even MORE inspired artist whether he felt constricted at that time in the Beatles or not...OR whether they recorded the songs separately...

Come Together, Polythene Pam, She's So Heavy, Mean Mr. Mustard, his perfect singing parts in Sun King & Because are fervent efforts, not musings of artistic discontent.


if John was so "uninspired" than why did he state several times in subsequent years that "Come Together" was one of his best songs ? The word-play is CLASSIC Lennon. Just because he was planning to depart the band around this time doesnt mean he wanted his final works to sound like crap. His contributions to A. R. is certifiable proof of the contrary. Many ppl would agree.

Quoted from 829

I just took another gander at Anthology (DVD) and when they got to the section about the A. R. album, GEORGE f****** MARTIN HIMSELF says "it was a very happy album to make, that's why I'm very fond of it".

What does that quote have to do with anything? So they were getting along better, that accounts for it being like 'Old Times'? They still werent collaborating on every tune together like they used to. It also doesnt break down who did the majority of the work. Did you ever stop to think that 'very happy' might have meant that John put up with Pauls taskmaster ways just to get this album out? Wasnt this album being made when Allan Klein had fucked everything up and the Beatles were bitter with each other about legal matters? Remember when Paul didnt sign the contract for Klein, but still participated in the band functions? Again, 'old times' my a**.

Quoted Text

if John was so "uninspired" than why did he state several times in subsequent years that "Come Together" was one of his best songs ?

Because he's weird. This coming from the same guy who gave us 'Two Virgins', 'Life With The Lions', and 'The Wedding Album'. Sorry, not a big fan of 'Come Together'.

Quoted Text

The word-play is CLASSIC Lennon. Just because he was planning to depart the band around this time doesnt mean he wanted his final works to sound like crap. His contributions to A. R. is certifiable proof of the contrary. Many ppl would agree.

I've given you my opinions on his contributions. Although they are my opinions, i'm sure many people would agree with them also.

Its obvious we dont see eye to eye about this and thats fine. I'm just stating that I feel Paul had much more input into this album than the rest of them. It might just be me, but thats how I feel. Also, I didnt mean that John was alright with his working sounding like crap. We know better than that. I just meant that if he was so into it, he could have at least finished most of the tunes instead of just giving us three or so snippets like he did.

This coming from the same guy who gave us 'Two Virgins', 'Life With The Lions', and 'The Wedding Album'.

Quoted Text

those are the worst pieces of junk Lennon ever "recorded" (or screamed, moaned his way through)

but that's POST Beatles. John was very melodic and poetic in his Beatle stuff.

Theres were recorded in 68'/69'

Quoted from tkitna

You:  "Because he's weird."

Me: "subjective...which is ok, but still subjective."



You: 'This coming from the same guy who gave us 'Two Virgins', 'Life With The Lions', and 'The Wedding Album'."

Me: "I happen to agree w/ that last comment those are the worst pieces of junk Lennon ever "recorded" (or screamed, moaned his way through)

but that's POST Beatles. John was very melodic and poetic in his Beatle stuff."



You:  "I've given you my opinions on his contributions. Although they are my opinions, i'm sure many people would agree with them also."

Me: "true".

You: "Its obvious we dont see eye to eye about this and thats fine. I'm just stating that I feel Paul had much more input into this album than the rest of them. It might just be me, but thats how I feel."

Me: "fair enough. Agree to disagree"

This coming from the same guy who gave us 'Two Virgins', 'Life With The Lions', and 'The Wedding Album'.

Quoted Text

those are the worst pieces of junk Lennon ever "recorded" (or screamed, moaned his way through)

but that's POST Beatles. John was very melodic and poetic in his Beatle stuff.

These were recorded in 68'/69'

nobody get the feeling that depending on maccas mood during recording that it would play a big part on the whole general mood ? it seems how controlling or picky or obsessive he was over how it should sound would rub of more on the other guys? more so than anything john and yoko were up to,.

If it wasn't for Paul's input, there would never have been an Abbey Road.

yeah i know paul was the driving force, i just meant the atmosphere surrounding the recording, before paul became the unofficial leader of the band there seem to be a little less tension, as john was acknowledge leader but wasnt as bossy or pushy as paul in the later years, so that also gave paul less to get frustrated or bossy about as it wasnt his place and in turn led to a happier george and ringo not getting pushed and told  what to play and how as much ?

Quoted from fendertele

yeah i know paul was the driving force, i just meant the atmosphere surrounding the recording, before paul became the unofficial leader of the band there seem to be a little less tension, as john was acknowledge leader but wasnt as bossy or pushy as paul in the later years, so that also gave paul less to get frustrated or bossy about as it wasnt his place and in turn led to a happier george and ringo not getting pushed and told  what to play and how as much ?

Sorry - I think that's wrong.
Up to 1966 they were busy touring and had to squeeze in recording dates. They were hardworking and highly motivated. I don't see John as a leader 62-66 anymore than Paul. They went into the studio knowing what sort of music they would make and what (very tight) deadlines they had to meet. If there was less tension then it was because the band had direction and purpose, from themselves, Martin and Epstein. There wasn't less tension then because John was a better leader, but because neither of them were leaders. They didn't need a band member to be one.

By the time of Abbey Road there was a vaccuum. Someone had to step up to the plate and take the lead, and it was Paul. It wasn't that John was "less bossy or pushy." Imagine John had decided to assert himself in 68 - you don't think his poltical vision, his desire to include Yoko, and his general way with people wouldn't have caused some stress and tension amongst that same group of people whose relationships were already fractured?

John never put himself in the position where he had to direct and motivate a bunch of dispirited, bored, antagonistic men. And when he could have he bottled it.