Its not as though John himself didn't churn out granny songs of his own - I'd consider "Being For The Benefit of Mr. Kite" a granny song.  Also, what about "If I Fell?"  That's certainly the type of song that John would berate Paul for writing.  

Is there a quote from John somewhere explaining how he used the word "granny"? I guess it all depends on how you look at it. If it's in regards to the solo years, it'd make more sense-they were always digging at eachother. And don't forget that whatever your personal opinions might be, John did seem to contradict himself occasionally.

John used the term "oh, another one of Paul's granny music" when Paul was working on "Maxwell's Silver Hammer," I believe.  And I read that he used it before that, too.

Quoted from Buttmunker

Its not as though John himself didn't churn out granny songs of his own - I'd consider "Being For The Benefit of Mr. Kite" a granny song.  Also, what about "If I Fell?"  That's certainly the type of song that John would berate Paul for writing.  

I agree with you, that "If I Fell" and "Being for the Benefit ..." could be called "granny" songs as much as "When I'm 64", "Lovely Rita", etc. John wasn't known for letting reality put any limits on his utterances.

Paul's greatest "granny" song "Eleanor Rigby" ..in this case "cheers" to so-called granny songs.(assuming of course the term isnt derogatory)  

any mention of Honey Pie yet?

Quoted from Andy Smith

any mention of Honey Pie yet?

I thought of it but was afraid to mention it. Actually, I always loved the "old-fashioned" sound of that one on The White Album. A DEFINITE Paul granny song

by the way, doesnt "You Gave Me the Answer" off Paul's old "Venus & Mars" album sound like it could be a sister song of "Honey Pie" ?? I always thought that.

Quoted from Buttmunker

I'd consider "Being For The Benefit of Mr. Kite" a granny song.  

Its a psychedelic marvel. While John was writing stuff like this, 'Strawberry Fields', and 'I Am The Walrus', Paul was writing 'When I'm 64', 'Hello Goodbye', and 'Your Mother Should Know'. I think thats where John was coming from.

'If I Fell' was written in 64' and it was a collaboration between the two of them. Not sure if that was such a good example.

It all depends on what John's definition of "Granny music" was. Paul did experiment with different genres a lot more than John and I would definitely class a few of Paul's Beatle compositions as "Granny" music, i.e. they are deliberately old-sounding - "Michelle", "When I'm 64" and "Honey Pie" for example, as well as those already mentioned. I would also say that "Maxwell's Silver Hammer" probably fits that description too.

I certainly wouldn't class "If I Fell" and "Being For The Benefit of Mr Kite" as Granny music though - however "Goodnight" from the White Album is, in my opinion.

Quoted from 829

by the way, doesnt "You Gave Me the Answer" off Paul's old "Venus & Mars" album sound like it could be a sister song of "Honey Pie" ?? I always thought that.

Yeah, those 2 songs did have that 1920s sound to them. Good songs though, I like the throwback sound they had.

what about Mull of Kintyre, does anybody think that has a granny sound?

Mull of Kintyre does not sound "granny" at all. Its suppose to be a Scottish ballad. I take it the "Granny" term means songs that sound like they've come from the 1940s and had very cabiret sounds to them(I.E. Fred Astaire).  Maybe something their Granny's would listen to.

I see the example you're trying to say Tkita but those Paul songs you mentioned except 'Hello Goodbye' are not the best songs to use. 'Your Mother Should Know' and 'When I'm 64' were written in Paul's early teens when he had a fascination with Frank Sinatra, Fred Astaire and other cabiret songwriters. He didn't write those songs in 67. Paul puts out whatever type of music he wants, it shouldn't be a suprise he put 'When I'm 64' during the psychedelic marvel. I mean he did put out 'Mull of Kintyre' in the middle of the Punk revolution.

Its just funny how John is seen as a saint but yet he was the most arrogant guy ever known to man. I mean Paul was arrogant too but he was more subtle about it. In the early 70s John was bragging about how much of a genius he was and that eventually faded in the mid and late 70s when he music was selling poorly. It shouldn't be a suprise he said Paul puts out "Granny" music. I think for awhile he thought he was superior to Paul.

Quoted from Andy Smith

what about Mull of Kintyre, does anybody think that has a granny sound?

Mull of Kintyre is one his most brilliant solo works...I wouldn't even think of calling it a "granny song". Come to think of it, this whole thread is predicated on a misnomer in my opinion. This was John's tag on some of McCartney's melodies--it was probably just another one of his spontaneaous, off-the- cuff light sarcasms at Paul. I'm not sure when he said it..(was it in the "How Do You Sleep" era ?..or in the Beatle era?) Maybe slight jealously. Yes, it's true, John was the Fab's resident "word-smith",as opposed to Paul, the "melody-man"..but..as we all know conversely, John could write some beautiful melodies himself (e.g., In My Life, Imagine, Norwegian Wood..etc.)and Paul could oft-time write a timeless lyric (Eleanor Rigby, Yesterday)--so John's remark seems to be slightly petty to me whenever it occurred.

Quoted from 829

Mull of Kintyre is one his most brilliant solo works...

I think so too & i cannot understand why so many people hate it,
it's a beautiful simple singalong that sticks in your head!  
I still find the term 'Granny' a bit strange.  

Quoted from Wordno

Mull of Kintyre does not sound "granny" at all. Its suppose to be a Scottish ballad. I take it the "Granny" term means songs that sound like they've come from the 1940s and had very cabiret sounds to them(I.E. Fred Astaire).  Maybe something their Granny's would listen to.

I see the example you're trying to say Tkita but those Paul songs you mentioned except 'Hello Goodbye' are not the best songs to use. 'Your Mother Should Know' and 'When I'm 64' were written in Paul's early teens when he had a fascination with Frank Sinatra, Fred Astaire and other cabiret songwriters. He didn't write those songs in 67. Paul puts out whatever type of music he wants, it shouldn't be a suprise he put 'When I'm 64' during the psychedelic marvel. I mean he did put out 'Mull of Kintyre' in the middle of the Punk revolution.

But Paul returned to the genre every now and then. Hence Honey Pie and You Gave Me The Answer from his Venus And Mars album in 1975.

Lennon was such an  " Old Women " pontificating from behind his granny spec's , i love his comments though  

DaveRam

When Paul belted out "Got To Get You Into My Life," Lennon later said 'that was Paul at his best.'  Lennon would get "annoyed" when Paul would go soft with the ballads, when he knew Paul could rock along with the best of them.  Lennon thought "Yesterday" was lovely, yet he didn't really want anything to do with it.  He tried to play an organ at first, but the idea was abandoned, and after that, he was content to just stand in the wings.  His "granny" comments occurred during the Beatles era, to be sure, cause he had much worse things to say about Paul during his "How Do You Sleep" era.

Quoted from 829

by the way, doesnt "You Gave Me the Answer" off Paul's old "Venus & Mars" album sound like it could be a sister song of "Honey Pie" ?? I always thought that.

Paul's always had a thing for whimsy. Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey, for instance. And an entire album of Ram remakes: Thrillington.

Quoted from 829

John's remark seems to be slightly petty to me whenever it occurred.

John would make them up on the spot, depending on how he was feeling that day. In the mid 70's hye did say that he regretted some of the things he said about Paul. Maybe that was one of them. I think there's maybe a little jealousy there too. The fact that Paul could turn his hand to pretty much anything.

Quoted from Buttmunker

His "granny" comments occurred during the Beatles era, to be sure, cause he had much worse things to say about Paul during his "How Do You Sleep" era.

I haven't listened to all of the Jann Wenner interview for Rolling Stone from 1970 yet, but john is being particularly nasty about Paul. It could have originated from there.

Quoted from Buttmunker

When Paul belted out "Got To Get You Into My Life," Lennon later said 'that was Paul at his best.'  Lennon would get "annoyed" when Paul would go soft with the ballads, when he knew Paul could rock along with the best of them.  Lennon thought "Yesterday" was lovely, yet he didn't really want anything to do with it.  .

yes, but then he later came out with songs like Woman & Beautiful Boy.
I can see that in a McCartney range!
But Macca then came out with Coming Up which Lennon apparently loved
& inspired him to write new stuff again. I personally think they loved each
other's work but sometimes afraid to admit it. but i could be wrong.

Nobody mentioned Martha My Dear!  

Quoted from Andy Smith

yes, but then he later came out with songs like Woman & Beautiful Boy.
I can see that in a McCartney range!
But Macca then came out with Coming Up which Lennon apparently loved
& inspired him to write new stuff again. I personally think they loved each
other's work but sometimes afraid to admit it. but i could be wrong.

I know its off-topic, but by 1979/80, John Lennon was falling in love with rock and roll again.  Not only that, but I think, to a degree, he reconciled a lot of his anger towards his former mate (although not entirely, if you read the Playboy interviews from 1980).  The fact that he wrote a song like "Woman," with the repetitive "I love you, yeah yeah, now and forever," indicates that he recognized the use for 'granny music.'  

I hate MDC for taking Lennon away.  He was coming back, and doing the best work of his career.  He abandoned all the anger, all the resentment, and was making music again.  

If Lennon had been a lesser man, the drugs would have destroyed his ability to perform music.  However, it did destroy his sensibilities towards his bandmates.

Quoted from Buttmunker

I hate MDC for taking Lennon away.  He was coming back, and doing the best work of his career.  He abandoned all the anger, all the resentment, and was making music again.  

Hello Buttmunker.
I hear it so differently. I found Double Fantasy a major disapointment. It wasn't offensive - but it sounded uninspired, way too slick and dated. I think its lacklustre sales (at least until his death) showed Joe Public wasn't too keen either. I'm not sure he had anything left to offer. (though in his defence, nor did anyone else from the sixties.)

call me what you will, but I find songs like "(Just Like) Starting Over" and "Woman" to be more listenable than songs like "Mother" or "Whatever Gets You Thru The Night."  The songs from "Double Fantasy" were inspired, fresh-sounding, and musically superior to what he did in the early 70's (the song "Imagine" is the exception, as it is just a beautiful song).

Fair enough. I shall call you "the man (I assume) who's opinions I respect, but do not agree with."
I agree about "Whateve Gets You Through The Night" - it's awful. I don't think "Mother" was ever intended to be an easy listen. I think that was kind of the point - it and the rest of PBO were supposed to challenge you, not make you hum along. And yes, for DF to be worse than most of John's solo stuff would have meant it would have to be very dire indeed. And it wasn't - it was just ordinary.
But we're off topic.
Regards.

Quoted from Buttmunker

I hate MDC for taking Lennon away.  He was coming back, and doing the best work of his career.  He abandoned all the anger, all the resentment, and was making music again.  

Yes i agree, it's my personal fav of his solo career, my fav periods are Imagine & Double
Fantasy. He's seemed to lose his creativity in the mid-70's, he wrote some great songs but
most of them were throwaways (beef jerkey, tight a**..).
I find all his songs on Double Fantasy so brilliant, well written songs with no duds, he was
taken away at the time that i think he kind of re-invented his roots & self again!

It's no secret that I'm with Kevin here. Especially because John felt he had to give half to the album to the wife.

Quoted from Bobber

It's no secret that I'm with Kevin here. Especially because John felt he had to give half to the album to the wife.

I'm with you there. Everyone wanted a Lennon album, not Yoko. I find the songs very American style slick, bland, and FM friendly. Very uninspiring. I know a lot of people here don't like Sometime In NYC, but there's a lot more inspiration on there than anything that came after it.

Quoted from BlueMeanie

I'm with you there. Everyone wanted a Lennon album, not Yoko. I find the songs very American style slick, bland, and FM friendly. Very uninspiring. I know a lot of people here don't like Sometime In NYC, but there's a lot more inspiration on there than anything that came after it.

The first part of this I agree with.  Nobody wanted to hear half a Yoko album.

The second part, I couldn't disagree more.  John's Double Fantasy songs are a throwback to some of John's best work with the Beatles.  Even as Beatles fans, we tend to see the lads through their caricatures.  Harsh John. Whimsical Paul.  Stern George. Dopey Ringo.  Those caricatures are not really accurate, however.  Sometime in New York City is "I Am The Walrus" taken to a degree that is musically unappealing.  John could be harsh and sarcastic.  He could also be funny and romantic.  More times than not, John's best music with the Beatles is sprinkled with a touch of humor.  I believe it's something he lost when he left the Beatles.  Plastic Ono Band and Imagine are great, but after that, John started to get too political and angry for his own good.  His anger in Plastic Ono Band are wrapped around good melodies, something Sometime in New York City doesn't have.

Double Fantasy is John's best work since Imagine.  I think the followups that would have been Milk and Honey had the potential to be great, also.  I mean, Nobody Told Me is classic Lennon, is it not?  Tongue firmly planted in cheek.

Quoted from Bobber

It's no secret that I'm with Kevin here. Especially because John felt he had to give half to the album to the wife.

just be grateful he didn't give half his songs to Yoko as well.  "Woman" and "(Just Like) Starting Over" could have been...OMG...duets!

Quoted from Buttmunker

just be grateful he didn't give half his songs to Yoko as well.  "Woman" and "(Just Like) Starting Over" could have been...OMG...duets!

To save myself from nightmares, I'll try not to think of that.