So how do you all think it started? It's becoming more common to give the Ramones credit for the birth of punk, but when I listen to them I don't really hear them as punk as a band like the Sex Pistols who always got credit for starting the whole movement. I think the atmosphere in the UK back then was more of a catalyst for creating the punk attitude or whatever you call it5 than the NYC CBGB's thing, but I don't know. And how is Blondie considered punk for God's sake? I guess compared to what was going on back then they were, but really, I don't hear it.

If there's one band that should be credited for the birth of punk, than it's the Ramones. Speeded up, simplified rock & roll with distorted guitars and an attitude, I think that's pretty much the definition of punk (if there is any).

But then again, before punk was called punk, you already had The Kingsmen's "Louie Louie"... The Paul Revere & The Raiders version of "Steppin' Stone"... ? and the Mysterians's "96 Tears"... Iggy Pop... Eddie Cochran... MC5...

in the 40s there was a guy they considered too wild for most conservitive tastes....they say little richard stole some of his act and even his pompedour...that man was billy eckstien...you can always find a fringe group in any genre..

Marc Bolan was the godfather of PUNK and the New York Dolls were his Bridesmaids .
I also think Blondie 's Plastic Letter's was a good Punk/New Wave Album .
But the only band that really matter's from that time is The Clash ?

DaveRam

There was so much good music back then that I nearly grew out of The Beatles altogether - Dec '80 changed that.

You're right about that definition of Punk, Joost. I think some of the Beatles' set back in the Hamburg days had that "punk" feel too - just listen to Red Hot (what there is of it!), I'm Gonna Sit Right Down And Cry and Some Other Guy for example.

If you think of the classic perception of what punk is though, including the fashion AND the music, you have to say that Malcolm McLaren and Vivienne Westwood pretty much started that whole scene (albeit with some influence from Richard Hell).

There used to be a difference between punk (British) and new wave (American). Reading this thread so far, that difference has disappeared. Is it all considered punk nowadays? I mean, Ramones, Blondie? Punk in the early days used to be The Sex Pistols, Dead Kennedy's, The Clash, that kind of stuff. But then, I'm not really into the subject.

I think there were similar scenes developing on their own steam on both sides of the Atlantic - they just happened to collide around 1977.

I do see a distintion between "new wave" and punk though.

Quoted from 679

Marc Bolan was the godfather of PUNK and the New York Dolls were his Bridesmaids .
I also think Blondie 's Plastic Letter's was a good Punk/New Wave Album .
But the only band that really matter's from that time is The Clash ?

DaveRam

I'd call Marc Bolan and the New York Dolls (even though they definately influenced the Pistols) glam and Blondie new wave. Not punk...

Quoted from The End

I think some of the Beatles' set back in the Hamburg days had that "punk" feel too - just listen to Red Hot (what there is of it!), I'm Gonna Sit Right Down And Cry and Some Other Guy for example.

The single version of Revolution is almost punk. It's got political lyrics, heavily distorted guitars, and screaming. It's just a little bit too slow.

I've always thought of Punk as a movement rather than as a particular type of music. I was 18 and living in London in 1976, so I saw it all first hand. Most peoples historical perception of Punk seems to be that everyone had a mohican hairstyle and went round wearing ripped t-shirts and bondage trousers, and wore safety pins in their ears. The reality was quite different. Yes there were those that dressed like that, but at a gig with an audience of, say 150, you might see 10. There were plenty of designer punks around Oxford Street and Soho though. American tourists would pay them so they could take their picture!

Musically, I thought there were very few bands that you could actually call 'Punk'. The Sex Pistols, The Damned, The Clash, and a few others. A lot of bands crossed over into what became known as 'New Wave'. For instance, the bands known as Punk bands in the States were almost all termed 'New Wave' in Britain. The Ramones, Blondie, Television etc. And most people who liked Punk seemed to also like these bands.

Punk in Britain was very different to Punk in the US. In the US it seemed to follow on from what bands like The Velvet Underground, and MC5 - to name but 2 - were doing in the late 60's. In Britain the music seemed to spring from social and economic despair, and an attempt by the youth to draw music away from the excessess of Prog Rock. It was popular - and sometimes downright necessary - to not be able to play your instrument very well. This is where I have a problem with bands like The Stranglers. They could play very well, their songs were musical, and their lead singer was no spring chicken!

It's a very interesting period that threw up a lot of good music, and an awful lot of dross. And 'Indy' music, as we know it today, may well not have developed the way it has without it.

Quoted from Bobber

There used to be a difference between punk (British) and new wave (American). Reading this thread so far, that difference has disappeared. Is it all considered punk nowadays? I mean, Ramones, Blondie? Punk in the early days used to be The Sex Pistols, Dead Kennedy's, The Clash, that kind of stuff. But then, I'm not really into the subject.

I've read quite a bit about the history of punk, and the issue if punk is American or British is pretty interesting. All the British bands like the Pistols, the Clash, the UK Subs etc. were influenced by American rock 'n' roll, garage rock and new wave. And the early American hardcore bands like Black Flag, Bad Brains, Dead Kennedys and Minor Threat were mostly influenced by those British bands rather than any American music. In fact, the Bad Brains, who are all black, claim they got into ska and reggae by listening to The Clash!

Quoted from BlueMeanie

I've always thought of Punk as a movement rather than as a particular type of music.

Like I posted in another thread a while ago, it used to be a movement, but I don't think it still is. Currently there's too much diversity in punk to still call it a movement. You've got literally everything from left wing activists to neo nazis, from Christians to Hare Krishnas (seriously!) to atheists and from junkies to teetotallers who call themselves 'punk'.

Quoted from Joost

I've read quite a bit about the history of punk, and the issue if punk is American or British is pretty interesting. All the British bands like the Pistols, the Clash, the UK Subs etc. were influenced by American rock 'n' roll, garage rock and new wave. And the early American hardcore bands like Black Flag, Bad Brains, Dead Kennedys and Minor Threat were mostly influenced by those British bands rather than any American music. In fact, the Bad Brains, who are all black, claim they got into ska and reggae by listening to The Clash!

Terry Hall of The Specials was accredited for introducing Ska & Reggae to Punk,,,,I DJ'ed the same gig as him last Friday!  

Quoted from Joost

I've read

some of us actually lived during it!!!!

Quoted from pc31

some of us actually lived during it!!!!

And your point is...?