, "We're more popular than Jesus" remark--which at THAT time WAS TRUE for the kids in the UK if not the US(even though I didnt agree w/ him on that) but AT LEAST LENNON HAS BALLS.
Shame he had to go and ruin it with that grovelling apology. To stand up for what he said - now that would have taken balls.
are you F*CKING kidding? of COURSE you get "lambasted" if you defend Lennon..yes, here too. I'm a perfect example of this. But I dont really care if I get banned..I'll stick to my opinion no matter what.
You're not getting lambasted for defending Lennon. Nobody here thinks he's crap. I'm critisising you, as I would anyone else, for throwing the word 'genius' about in regard to him. The word is used far too liberally these days, and especially on Beatles forums. Do some comparisons; why John, and not Paul? Einstein, he was a genius!
If we're going to compare a Beatle to the likes of Mozart or Beethoven, then wouldn't it make more sense to use McCartney? I mean, he is known more as a master tunesmith whereas John is more the gifted lyricist. But personally I think the both shined in each arena at some point. As a team they were as good as a Mozart or Beethoven, but separately? Not sure about that.
I'm not sure about it either. I was making the comparison in the first place because the 'genius' word has been thrown up again. And the comparison was to John, because that's who the word was aimed at. I really don't think 'genius' and pop music go in the same sentence, when people like Eistein, Bohr, Stevenson, Eddison, and any number of people actually did something for the great of mankind.
I just want you to reassure him - talk to him, make him see the error of his ways. Then I'll hit him.
You're not getting lambasted for defending Lennon.
Agreed. All we have done is argue the case. I'm not going to debate whether Lennon was or wasn't a genius but my umbrage is that he went around calling himself one. That's about as uncool as uncool can be, and he set himself up wonderfully for his subsequent fall. I (and a few others I'm sure) come here because we like a good tussle. If we all agreed this would be a very dull place indeed.
I think genius get's used to much and often in the wrong context .Coming up with a cure for AIDS would be a genius thing to achieve ,writing a great pop song is a much lesser achievement . And lets not forget a lot of people don't even like The Beatles.
If you look at the definition of what a genius is, then I think Paul and John could qualify under a couple of those standards at least. There are different types of geniuses. They were geniuses in their field. No question. Creative geniuses cannot be compared to scientific geniuses. With all due respect to Einstein, could he have written Hey Jude or Imagine? Not saying he should have to even try, but then why should Lennon/McCartney try to find the theory of relativity to make them geniuses? Each contributed something to the world. I know people don't think music is as important as finding a cure for whatever, but try to live without it and see how the quality of life goes down. It does affect people's lives. Sometimes profoundly. And rock music shouldn't still be considered less a form of art than classical music. I thought the Beatles changed the perception back in the sixties? What happened?
gen·ius (jēn'yəs) n., pl. -ius·es.
Extraordinary intellectual and creative power. A person of extraordinary intellect and talent: “One is not born a genius, one becomes a genius” (Simone de Beauvoir). A person who has an exceptionally high intelligence quotient, typically above 140.
A strong natural talent, aptitude, or inclination: has a genius for choosing the right words. One who has such a talent or inclination: a genius at diplomacy. The prevailing spirit or distinctive character, as of a place, a person, or an era: the genius of Elizabethan England. pl. ge·ni·i (jē'nē-ī'). Roman Mythology. A tutelary deity or guardian spirit of a person or place. A person who has great influence over another.
I think Paul did a bit more than that. I least I thought so anyway. Have to look it up.
We were referring to "Day In The Life"--this baby was John's--everybody knows this..I said the bridge was McCartney's....am I not correct??? WHO did I offend in the macca camp now ? dear gawd...he did more on this one? ...oh wait...sang the bridge...played the bass parts...those are givens... tell me what else he did on this one if I'm so incorrect. This is a LENNON song.
If you look at the definition of what a genius is, then I think Paul and John could qualify under a couple of those standards at least. There are different types of geniuses. They were geniuses in their field. No question. Creative geniuses cannot be compared to scientific geniuses. With all due respect to Einstein, could he have written Hey Jude or Imagine? Not saying he should have to even try, but then why should Lennon/McCartney try to find the theory of relativity to make them geniuses? Each contributed something to the world. I know people don't think music is as important as finding a cure for whatever, but try to live without it and see how the quality of life goes down. It does affect people's lives. Sometimes profoundly. And rock music shouldn't still be considered less a form of art than classical music. I thought the Beatles changed the perception back in the sixties? What happened?
gen·ius (jēn'yəs) n., pl. -ius·es.
and your point is ??
NO ONE is disputing the musical acumen of Sir Paul McCartney. I've said several times I've always known him to be a creative genius as far as melody composition and musicianship. (even his graphic arts have garnered recent attention--that is, of course, if you like cheap Magritte rip-offs) I'm AWARE of all that. My contention is that John Lennon is ALL this ...and more. (author, social reformer, humanitarian, poet, composer, lyricist extraordinare..etc.)
who is comparing either of these two men to the likes of Einstein ? (his genius resided in a whole other disipline) There IS a distinction. It's comparing apples & oranges. *totally non-plused*
We were referring to "Day In The Life"--this baby was John's--everybody knows this..I said the bridge McCartney's....am I not correct??? WHO did I offend in the macca camp now ? dear gawd...he did more on this one...oh wait...sang the bridge...played the bass parts...those are givens... tell me what else he did on this one if I'm so incorrect. This is a LENNON song.
*geniflects b4 the holy statue of Sir Paul*
I'd like to point out that you are being unnecessarily rude. I know it's a LENNON song. That doesn't mean Paul didn't collaborate. And I said I wasn't sure to what extent other than the brige as I've read different things. You need to calm down a bit. This is called a discussion forum. We are discussing. Or at least trying to.
NO ONE is disputing the musical acumen of Sir Paul McCartney. I've said several times I've always known him to be a creative genius as far as melody composition and musicianship. (even his graphic arts have garnered recent attention--that is, of course, if you like cheap Magritte rip-offs) I'm AWARE of all that. My contention is that John Lennon is ALL this ...and more. (author, social reformer, humanitarian, poet, composer, lyricist extraordinare..etc.)
who is comparing either of these two men to the likes of Einstein ? (his genius resided in a whole other disipline) There IS a distinction. It's comparing apples & oranges. *totally non-plused*
Did you not read the thread? That's what I was responding to. The comment that Einstein is a real genius. I was pointing out that I feel there are different types of geniuses and they were geniuses in their field. So your pointing out to me that Einstein was a genius in a whole other discipline is just reiterating what I just said. Your reading comprehension needs work.
"Yes, if there is such a thing as one, I am one. РРРІЂ РРРРІР‚ РРІЂљРРЋв„ўРРРІЂ РРІЂС™РРР‹РРЋС™ People like me are aware of their so-called genius at ten, eight, nine. . . . I always wondered, РРРІЂ РРРРІР‚ РРІЂљРРЋв„ўРРРРІР‚в„–РРЋв„ўWhy has nobody discovered me?'' In school, didn't they see that I'm cleverer than anybody in this school? That the teachers are stupid, too?
-He may WELL HAVE said these things...BUT it's common knowledge the John gleefully spoke the most audacious things throughout his life just to get a rise out of ppl...you think the quote above was any exception ? Lennon had notable iconoclastic tendencies that served him very well in his later art...to use something he said when he was young and rebellious against him now is unfair. He grew older and matured..as did his art. When he did criticize political leaders and certain individuals he felt were disingenuous or dangerous, he was certainly within his rights (as a world artist) to do so. In fact, he was OBLIGATED to do so. Conversely, as Lennon grew more thoughtful and circumspect w/age, our Macca evolved (or de-volved, if you will) into a more self-absorbed, romantically sentimental and trite songwriter (w/occasional exceptions)...but more disturbingly, he notably became more obnoxiously vain ("Many Years From Now" is rife with his "Look at me, aint I great?..even greater than John" attitude) It's disgusting to many long-time Beatle fans to see Paul act so unabashedly petty. But I suppose all shortcomings are forgiven when it comes to Sir Macca, but where Lennon is concerned, out comes the rope. It smacks of hypocracy to me..but then, what do I know?...I'm bias aint I ?
If we're going to compare a Beatle to the likes of Mozart or Beethoven, then wouldn't it make more sense to use McCartney? I mean, he is known more as a master tunesmith whereas John is more the gifted lyricist. But personally I think the both shined in each arena at some point.
yes, I must admit I totally agree w/ this. I always maintained Paul's considerable gifts for melody....in other words, a genius (which is the SAME word I aptly apply to JOHN also, but everybody and his brother seems to take issue w/ that)
AND, PLEASE BE FAIR AND KEEP IN MIND it wasnt me who brought the comparison up. BM said "compared to Mozart, Lennon was a nobody" ...oh that's nice...lovely.
I felt I had to say something in John's defense. Is that so incredibly wrong ????? I guess that means I should be hung. WhatEVER.
You're not getting lambasted for defending Lennon. Nobody here thinks he's crap. I'm critisising you, as I would anyone else, for throwing the word 'genius' about in regard to him. The word is used far too liberally these days, and especially on Beatles forums. Do some comparisons; why John, and not Paul? Einstein, he was a genius!
I'm not sure about it either. I was making the comparison in the first place because the 'genius' word has been thrown up again. And the comparison was to John, because that's who the word was aimed at. I really don't think 'genius' and pop music go in the same sentence, when people like Eistein, Bohr, Stevenson, Eddison, and any number of people actually did something for the great of mankind.
"for the great of mankind" ? why didnt you add Oppenheimer to your list ? Where would the "Eve of Destruction" be without him ? REMEMBER there was a dark side to Einstein's genius if you recall...and didnt it go "boom" over Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Could the fruits of labor of someone like Lennon result in the same such disastrous consequences ? I think not. Music is innocuous (at least it is in theory..it's more often meant to enrich, not destroy) Granted, 'ol Albert never intended his discoveries to be used in such an ominous way.. but didnt it happen ???? John never split an atom..he wrote songs...songs dont kill ...yet you exalt the likes of these scientists compared to a beloved composer/performer?...unbelieveable. Are you implying by your last remark that John didnt do anything for the great of mankind? I'm astounded. You're WELL within your rights not to deem him a genius, obviously some ppl do or else Central Park's Strawberry Fields would never be visited (and we all know that isnt true). But I have to say, IMO, to compare the relative worth of John to men like Einstein, Bohr, (Neils Bohr ?? (sp), Stevenson and Eddison is ludicrous.
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