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 Bobber |
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Is it just me? Or isn't really much happening in the modern music? To my ears it all sounds more or less the same or it has been done before. Valerie by Amy Winehouse is a fine song, but it is not new. It sounds like the sixties Motown. Duffy's Mercy is the same song. Looking at decades like the 60's, 70's (Zeppelin, glitter, disco, punk, ska) and even the 80's it looks as if far more was happening then. But maybe opinions differ. Please tell me I'm wrong. |
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| Kevin |
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I'm always weary of making these judgements. I'm aware that a) I'm getting old and I'm not in most trecord companies target market anymore and b) there's a whole raft of music I'm not aware of. I guess a certain amount of recycling is inevitable. |
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| Bobber |
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That's why I built in the 'is it me'- escape. |
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| mr kite |
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Not much happing in music scene is spot on. Valerie was a Zutons song Duffy is the new Lulu And ring tones are the new pop culture for kids , anything where you have to sit and listen to is dead , 3 minutes is all you will get out of most of todays kids . Having said that there are some great guitar bands about today , but they don`t get air play, so its just touring that makes a successful band . Still music is not an age thing any more as you can see on here on how many young people are into The Beatles. Class will always last and good music will go on forever  |
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 BlueMeanie |
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I'm always well aware that I could end up sounding like my father, which is why I'm usually very careful of what I say about modern music, and to whom. The recent music that I like tends to sound timeless; Okkervil River, Eels, etc. Could have been recorded anytime in the last 20 years or so. Same with Counting Crows.
I'm sure we all remember our parents saying 'All that stuff sounds the same'! |
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| DarkSweetLady |
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| DaveRam |
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I saw the video for Duffy's Mercy today and i was shocked how bad it was , it's attemps to capture a Northen Soul atmospher with a bunch of lame male dancer's , who barley knew the moves was totally embarrassing .
Duffy as an interesting voice but a Northen Soul stomper this song is not , if your going to do a pastiche of something thats gone before give the song and the video some more thought it's a lazy piece of work , and doe's not deserve to be # 1 in the singles chart .
I grow up going to these clubs in the north of England in the late 70's and early 80's , when Northen Soul was popular and i can tell you it was nothing like this garbage. |
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| Sandra |
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I think the lull going on in the industry right now is probably one of the reasons why the Beatles are suddenly extremely popular again. It goes in phases. Somethings gotta happen to shake things up soon. Like Punk or Grunge did. Or like the Beatles did! I mean, how dull must it have been in the pre-Beatles days when people like Frankie Avalon and Fabian ruled the charts? Not too different from today's mess really. |
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| Geoff |
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Is it just me? Or isn't really much happening in the modern music? To my ears it all sounds more or less the same or it has been done before.
What strikes me is the extent to which pop music is still playing out ideas which were first heard forty years ago in the sixties. I'm not complaining about that; in fact I rather enjoy it (Amy Winehouse being a good example). All the same, I don't imagine that a lot of kids in the sixties were listening to music from the twenties- except maybe via a couple of Paul McCartney's songs- and that says something about the difference between then and now; the sixties being more intensely about right now. |
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| Kevin |
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I agree with Sandra - lulls are good. They normally prefigure the next big thing - there was one before The Beatles, punk, Grunge and Britpop. (and I guess Hip Hop, Dance and Garage, though outside my field). And the thing they always seem to have in common is that they produce something that "the kids" feel they can do themselves. |
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| DaveRam |
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British X factor winner Leona Lewis and her # 1 UK single Bleeding Love is starting to make a bit of a ripple on the Billboard singles chart she goe's from # 41 to # 21 this week and is the biggest sales gainer on the chart .
And Amy Winehouse clocks up a year on the Billboard album chart and is still in the top 10.
So maybe the future is women dominating music ? and groups are a bit out of favour at the moment .
One of the problems is i think there are a lot of 30/40 somethings buying a lot of music and it's from a broad spectrum of artists and the youngster's out there don't seem to be getting a look in .
When i was young i felt like i was part of something, maybe todays youth feel whats the point when today's music and the album charts inparticular are clogged up with your mum and dads music ?
Maybe it's time for us oldies to potter about in the garden and leave the youth to it , when a 75 year old women like my mum is buying Leona Lewis something is seriously wrong with music today ? |
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| BlueMeanie |
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Good point Dave. The charts in our day were generally full of youth oriented music, and that did indeed make you feel that you were part of some kind of movement. Even if that movement was only in the mind. Now 50 year olds are buying stuff that's in the charts, which would make your average teenager run a mile. Some kids would think their parents were pretty cool if they bought the same music as them, but most, I imagine, would be horrified. If my mum had come home with a Clash record in 1977, would I have ever listened to them again?
Identifying with your parents is not what kids want to do. You want to rebel a bit at that age, even if just to make a point. And you can't rebel by buying Amy Winehouse, and Justin Timberlake. |
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I think they should maybe have charts for the under 30's ? and have a vintage one for us , a lot of parents consider themsleves to be there childrens best friend which is sick in my book ?
My parents and the establishment were the enemy , what we need is the generation gap back?
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| Bobber |
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Fact is that the chart used to be made up of sold cd's (or singles/albums in the early days). The 30+ generation is still the people that buy cd's. Maybe the younger folk is used to downloading more? |
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| Kevin |
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I agree with you- nothing is happening in the music industry today. It has become so phony, most of their voices are probably manipulated by technology,
A person could argue that Beatle fans are in no place to mock acts that rely on studio gimmickry. They could say that once The Beatles realised they needed to do more than their usual three minute boy-meets-girl teeny pant-wetters to have any longevity they found that as a live band they just weren't good enough. So while other bands - Stones, Dylan, Floyd, Zappa - continued the real spirit of rock and roll and pushed the boundaries of what a real band could do in front of a real audience they cowered in the studio. There they relied on George Martin's overdubbing, splicing, editing and ability to sit through endless take after take to carefully construct their music around them. Didn't Lennon spend the last ten years of his career hiding his shattered vocals unders layers of reverb and effects? We would crucify any modern band that admitted it wasn't good enough to reproduce their own music on stage, and at least they try. I. of course, would never say such things. |
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| alexis |
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A person could argue that Beatle fans are in no place to mock acts that rely on studio gimmickry. They could say that once The Beatles realised they needed to do more than their usual three minute boy-meets-girl teeny pant-wetters to have any longevity they found that as a live band they just weren't good enough. So while other bands - Stones, Dylan, Floyd, Zappa - continued the real spirit of rock and roll and pushed the boundaries of what a real band could do in front of a real audience they cowered in the studio. There they relied on George Martin's overdubbing, splicing, editing and ability to sit through endless take after take to carefully construct their music around them.
Didn't Lennon spend the last ten years of his career hiding his shattered vocals unders layers of reverb and effects?
We would crucify any modern band that admitted it wasn't good enough to reproduce their own music on stage, and at least they try.
I. of course, would never say such things.
Some might say the above was simplistically provocative (provocatively simplistic?): Stones: Ossified since 1966 in terms of their stage show. Maybe they were happy with that state of affairs, but one could say that it may have had (consciously or not) a smothering effect on their songwriting and studio production. By not limiting their songs to what could be played on stage, the Beatles didn't tie one (or eight) arms behind their backs in the studio, and the results out of Studio 2 reflect that in spades! Dylan: "... push the real boundaries of what a real band could do in front of a real audience"? Puhleez! His stage shows as a solo act since the mid-60s have been predictably poor. His best shows were with a famous top quality back up band (e.g., The Band). Even now, as for decades, when he tours with a back up band his shows are often described as mediocre. [Note: I've seen him twice, and if I didn't like what he "represented", I objectively might have described the shows the same way.] Floyd/Zappa: Did they really have these wonderful stage shows you reference - before 1970? Comparing what others did in the 70s and 80s with what the Beatles did in the 60s is a bit of the apples and oranges, don't you think? You wrote: "...They could say that once The Beatles realised they needed to do more than their usual three minute boy-meets-girl teeny pant-wetters to have any longevity they found that as a live band they just weren't good enough..." . One could say the Beatles realized they were not good enough live in 1967 to play the music in their heads. Seems like good insight, with excellent results, doesn't it. And, back then, was anyone else? Of course that's what someone else might say, wouldn't think of saying that myself, guv - nudge, nudge, wink, wink! |
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Nicely put theorums. Bands today have technology too easily available thus taking away a lot of the want in making good music. Once upon a time, being in the studio was an honour and accordingly hard graft went into ideas. Joe average today has more equipment at his fingertips than The Beatles and George Martin ever had, but no inclination, inspiration or ryhthms & scales left to go.
Message, spirit & execution. If them 3 are in order, then the vibe is strong and the myth & belief follow as collective conscious tries to evaluate, spin, sell & overplay it.
The live thing is where your really judged on your merits though. |
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| Kevin |
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Dylan: "... push the real boundaries of what a real band could do in front of a real audience"? Puhleez! His stage shows as a solo act since the mid-60s have been predictably poor.
Surely you jest. Bob's 1966 Royal Alberrt Hall concert is often cited as the greatest ever. He was the future: accoustic and electric sets, with extended and alternate versions of songs. Floyd were playing the UFO club, experimenting with lights and film and long long improvisations. These guys were the way of the future. I think my real gripe is that we accept things from The Beatles that we would abhor in anyone else ie overdubbing concert footage in the studio and passing it off as live. Naughty and worthy of our disdain. And yes, I was being a little simplisticly provocative. "Cowered" wouldn't be my normal choice of word. |
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Surely you jest. Bob's 1966 Royal Alberrt Hall concert is often cited as the greatest ever. He was the future: accoustic and electric sets, with extended and alternate versions of songs.
Floyd were playing the UFO club, experimenting with lights and film and long long improvisations.
These guys were the way of the future.
I think my real gripe is that we accept things from The Beatles that we would abhor in anyone else ie overdubbing concert footage in the studio and passing it off as live. Naughty and worthy of our disdain.
And yes, I was being a little simplisticly provocative. "Cowered" wouldn't be my normal choice of word.
Yes, I agree with you. I just saw a clip of Hey Jude on Let it Be, where it seemed to me what was broadcast was their live voices on top of a pre-recorded instrument track. I'm still a little confused about that show ... Did they play "Live" TO the original soundtrack, using it as sort of a click track? It's pretty hard to fake playing a piano. It does seem deceitful, and naughty to us today. On the other hand, when people like Hendrix or Clapton played live, they didn't need to reproduce the sounds of orchestras, etc. Was it the norm for the time? I attribute it to laziness on their part. |
| I love John,
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| fendertele |
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Good point Dave. The charts in our day were generally full of youth oriented music, and that did indeed make you feel that you were part of some kind of movement. Even if that movement was only in the mind. Now 50 year olds are buying stuff that's in the charts, which would make your average teenager run a mile. Some kids would think their parents were pretty cool if they bought the same music as them, but most, I imagine, would be horrified. If my mum had come home with a Clash record in 1977, would I have ever listened to them again?
Identifying with your parents is not what kids want to do. You want to rebel a bit at that age, even if just to make a point. And you can't rebel by buying Amy Winehouse, and Justin Timberlake.
A suppose in its way Dance/Techno/Rave music would have been today what the Pistols and all other music that youre parents thought was just noise and only the young ones got ? but the dance thing died off a few years ago and the next thing was Rap ? then it died off and now we have the Arctic monkey sound that all bands seem to sound like but they are also easier on the ear than the 2 mentioned before so now they are sharing the same cd's. |
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It does seem deceitful, and naughty to us today. On the other hand, when people like Hendrix or Clapton played live, they didn't need to reproduce the sounds of orchestras, etc. Was it the norm for the time?
i can accept the miming on TV bit - that seems par for the course. But going into the studio, playing over concert footage then passing it off as live is a no no. And that was just guitar music - bugger the orchestras. And surely most of Revolver, Pepper, The White album should be reproducable on stage by a decent band? Laziness - maybe, but I think it's more complex than that. Through in a bit of paranoia and fear for a start. There is a thread somewhere that discusses the Hey Jude clip at some length. |
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The beatles themselves played on top of a 'live' take for the All You Need Is Love broadcast.
To reproduce Kevin, you would need backing tracks, which means you have to play to a steady click track which does then make things clinical. A lot of live bands would never have afforded an orchestra, so better to record without one. I try and use this theory when songwriting. That way, any extra musicians is a bonus but not essential. All good tunes should be able to be strummed on guitar, otherwise it's technological cover up time and massive publicity campaigns. |
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| Kevin |
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I didn't mean like in the studio, I realize The Beatles did stuff like that. I meant like, they just can't sing...also when they are live, they depend on computers and technology to make them sounds the way they do on the album....
Fair enough. I just have trouble condemning an entire generation as talentless because some make use of technological advances. Plenty plenty of good honest singers and bands out there. |
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| BlueMeanie |
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i can accept the miming on TV bit - that seems par for the course. But going into the studio, playing over concert footage then passing it off as live is a no no. And that was just guitar music - bugger the orchestras.
It's common practice on a live record to 'retouch' the sound. A bum note here, and a miscue there. Some artists lay it on thicker than others though. It makes me laugh when I see one of those polls for best live album of all time, and Thin Lizzy's 'Live And Dangerous' is in it. A less 'live' live album you could hardly find. Apparently even some of the crowd noise isn't from their gig! I pressume you were referring to Shea Stadium? |
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I pressume you were referring to Shea Stadium?
After my abysml showing in Mastermind I'm not too sure. I know these things are common practise. I just wanted to remind that rock and roll has always been a bit of a game/con/charade, and The Beatles were no more exempt from playing their parts than anyone else. |
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| Geoff |
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All good tunes should be able to be strummed on guitar,
Or played on a piano. No doubt I'm dating myself here, because there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to build a great track out of a drum beat or anything else that appeals to you, but for me the best pop tunes seem to come out the musicians' having worked them out on guitar or piano. Maybe it's because those instruments encourage a progression or development of a song that leads to variation and building to a conclusion. A lot of modern music sounds very static to me; it circles around one idea or "hook" and instead of developing or changing, just fades away or comes to a full stop at the end. |
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Or played on a piano. No doubt I'm dating myself here, because there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to build a great track out of a drum beat or anything else that appeals to you, but for me the best pop tunes seem to come out the musicians' having worked them out on guitar or piano. Maybe it's because those instruments encourage a progression or development of a song that leads to variation and building to a conclusion. A lot of modern music sounds very static to me; it circles around one idea or "hook" and instead of developing or changing, just fades away or comes to a full stop at the end.
Guitar & Piano for sure and no it's not dated...What I mean is that no matter how you write the song, the guitar or Piano offer the simplest measure of whether it's any good or not. If a melody can glide over the chords well, then it's often a goer. Almost every Beatle song works this way. Exceptions to mind are obviously No. 9...Blue Jay Way is a bit boring on guitar, Flying and hmmm, now I am struggling but i think i have made my point. lol For me, if I can strum it in the back garden and it's vibing, then there is a good chance I will go out and perform the song with a full band. IT's very simple and obvious but very often overlooked. |
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| harihead |
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Love this discussion. Yes, good songs are made to be sung (or strummed). A collection of effects or simple repetition gets quite boring after a while. |
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| Geoff |
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A collection of effects or simple repetition gets quite boring after a while.
That's exactly my sense of it; for a song to work (for me, anyway), there has to be some kind of development, change, or growth in it as it goes along. I suspect that sitting with a guitar or at a piano while you're writing leads to a deeper emotional engagement with what you're doing than does sitting at a big electonic console. I mean, it gets more personal and you want to say something and say it right. |
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I have no interest in charts. i never really have.  |
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| BlueMeanie |
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After my abysml showing in Mastermind I'm not too sure. I know these things are common practise. I just wanted to remind that rock and roll has always been a bit of a game/con/charade, and The Beatles were no more exempt from playing their parts than anyone else.
I just uploaded to my blog the Lazy Tortoise CD that has the overdubs for the Shea Stadium film. Here's the list: 5 January 1966 CTS Studios, London Overdub and re-recording session for "The Beatles At Shea Stadium" 13. Dizzy Miss Lizzy (Bass overdub) 14. Can't Buy Me Love (Bass Overdub) 15. Baby's In Black (Bass Overdub) 16. I'm Down (Bass & organ overdub) 17. I Feel Fine (Complete re-recording) 18. Help! (Complete re-recording) 19. Ticket To Ride (Possible overdubs) That's quite a lot of overdubbing for a 25 minute set! And two complete re-recordings. |
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there is a lot happening actually. there is electronic music now and aleritive rock is becoming popluar, and so is rap (sorry but yuck). i really like some of the alternative rock stuff and some just straight alternative. |
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