I read somewhere in another topic about how much john started to rely on vocal effects and doubling up in the studio as the years went on, yet Macca's voice has just began to fade now in his old age.

We all know he had a rasp to his voice as its present even when he talks, but did he maybe push it too far or try to over emphasise it/put it on a bit. ?

When you watch early Beatles performances, his neck in quite a few  performances always seemed to be at full stretch with chin pointing up wards  ( similiar to the way Liam Gallagher sings) and always looks to be slightly strained/pushed ?

Liam Gallagher was told that if he continued to sing the way he did, he would lose his voice very early and you can hear it now, cant remember where i read it but his brother has said on many occasion that he cant sing for &@#* now, after years of straining his voice to get that Lennon rasp.

So did the same thing happen to John was he forcing his voice aswell or do people with raspy voices just have a great sounding voice but a short  singing life ?

I think a lot of John's problems with his voice were down to confidence and abuse with fags and booze . To me he had a classic recording voice and you could do anything with it in the studio and it still sounded magic.
But live it just was'nt up to the job later on . I'm not sure the rasp was the problem a number of singers with that kink have gone on singing well into old age , Joe Cocker ,Paul Rogers  spring to mind.
Maybe  John like Liam just did'nt take care of there voices .

George Martin said somewhere or other that John was always asking him to do something with his voice; he didn't like dry vocals and may have been self conscious about his voice. Even on his most determinedly direct album, Plastic Ono Band, his voice is usually double tracked or otherwise filtered. That seems to have been his preference, and to my mind, he sounds fine right through Double Fantasy.

But you're certainly right in your general point: Sterling Morrison said that Lou Reed's voice was never very durable, and he suggested comparing Reed's vocal performance on The Velvet Underground and Nico to that of Loaded. I think he's right, and Dylan's rasp, too, has long since become a croak.

My general impression (may be way off) is that the raspy male voice of the early and mid-twenties usually doesn't hold out by the time they get to the thirties.

John Lennon, Mitch Ryder, Bob Seeger to name a few. And Dylan, like above. Some exceptions I'm sure, maybe enough to make the rule!

Too much alcohol, poor diet and drugs, in some cases Heroin, all play their toll. A tenor improves with age as far as vocal chords go. I would put it down to self-discipline. lol

Speaking of raspy, Springsteen, Rod Stewart qualify? (I'm not a big fan.) I'm still belting them out into early 30's, Oh darling, Roxanne, Lets get It on....bring em on. heheh

Quoted from An Apple Beatle

Speaking of raspy, Springsteen, Rod Stewart qualify? (I'm not a big fan.)

Yeah, Stewart's voice seems to have held up, but his material... ouch.

he ruined his voice 'cause of pot and cigarettes along with no proper training.

To sing like that, and to not have had voice training is probably the kiss of death. Smoking and drinking won't help, but I suspect they're not the main contributor here. Singing 8 hours a night in Hamburg, and the punishing schedule that Epstein set for them must have seen to his vocal chords long before they stopped touring. You can hear it on some of the live bootlegs, and the man was only singing 3 or 4 songs a night by then. Opera singers rest their voices between shows by not speaking at all. I can't imagine John doing that.

With reference to both the above and as a self learnt vocalist, who has taught others at college (If humbly of any worth). it did not seem to affect Macca (Who sang most the high lines) so much and I don't remember him having vocal lessons either. Lennon was though by definition, a throatier singer than Macca.

Spending take after take in the studio would more likely have done it, as gigging can (Covers a range of vocals) actually help keep the vocals in shape. You can sing 8 hours a night, you just need good food and sleep to do the next. Instead they were probably rehearsing & writing.  

The other most important factor in singing is a balanced confidence. Another way around poor vocals is 'charismatic' or sincere vocals and Lennon was well a master of soundscapes by the later end of his career. His confidence and ego were all over the place. Asking for effects in the studio, whether recorded at the time or not, very often can help a singer feel the ambience more and back then would have been a novelty, so it's not surprising he would ask or request it and for it to be found on tape. (I'm thinking the Toot n A Snore sessions in 74 here.)  

All these things contributed is the summary I'm probably getting at. Good thread.  

Quoted from An Apple Beatle

With reference to both the above and as a self learnt vocalist, who has taught others at college (If humbly of any worth). it did not seem to affect Macca (Who sang most the high lines) so much and I don't remember him having vocal lessons either. Lennon was though by definition, a throatier singer than Macca.

Spending take after take in the studio would more likely have done it, as gigging can (Covers a range of vocals) actually help keep the vocals in shape. You can sing 8 hours a night, you just need good food and sleep to do the next. Instead they were probably rehearsing & writing.  

The other most important factor in singing is a balanced confidence. Another way around poor vocals is 'charismatic' or sincere vocals and Lennon was well a master of soundscapes by the later end of his career. His confidence and ego were all over the place. Asking for effects in the studio, whether recorded at the time or not, very often can help a singer feel the ambience more and back then would have been a novelty, so it's not surprising he would ask or request it and for it to be found on tape. (I'm thinking the Toot n A Snore sessions in 74 here.)  

All these things contributed is the summary I'm probably getting at. Good thread.  

Funny thing for you to say that. I play in a band, and have always had a difficult time singing (generally sliding past the proper note on the way up or down, rarely landing on it and staying there to any degree, even with vibrato). What has helped me sing much better lately is "sincere" singing. It's hard to explain, but instead of just performing/singing the song, it seems that I am pretending that I am actually entreating a fictional third person to believe me. Like I said, it's hard to explain, but your post above really hit a chord with me, and for now anyway it seems to help an awful lot in the performance. I'll think more about this as I practice - thanks!

P.S. FWIW, the song of the moment is "Desperado" by the Eagles.

John's voice seemed to have "gone" by the "Rock'n'Roll" album.  "Stand by Me" is heartbreaking to listen to--compared to the confident powerhouse of "Twist and Shout" over a decade before.  

I think singing from the diaphram helps--learning some technique helps--but even the best untrained blues singer knows how to work his/her voice rather than destroy it.  Anybody who sings for a living and smokes cigarettes is a complete idiot.  Dylan, George, John . . . .

All those cigarettes (and pot!) certainly didn't help his voice any, but let's be honest, John never had a really great "technical" voice. I mean, his rockers were great and he can certainly convey emotion, but he's no Frank Sinatra. Really, that whole shtick with the screaming and the belting out songs in his nasally voice didn't stand up over time. Mainly because your voice just gets weaker as you get older. Even at 40 or so a voice like that won't be as good as it was at 20.

Schtick?? That's called soul Mairi.  

Quoted from Sandra

Schtick?? That's called soul Mairi.  

Amen! At his peak, he had the most soul of any white boy, and even up there with the Temptations lead vocalist, who I always thought sounded like John!

I believe John favored Galois (unfiltered) cigs.  God knows how much pot and hash he smoked--not to mention other substances.  

But on the other hand Yoko's voice seemed to improve with age.