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DM's Beatles forums    Other forums    Current Affairs  ›  Phoenix Spacecraft Lands On Mars Moderators: Sandra, Kevin, harihead

Phoenix Spacecraft Lands On Mars  This thread currently has 912 views. Print
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Geoff
May 30, 2008, 9:42am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from harihead
We do what we can do, and our imagination is limited by our culture and technological development.


Arthur C Clarke quoted this from JBS Haldane on more than one occasion:

I have no doubt that in reality the future will be vastly more surprising than anything I can imagine. Now my own suspicion is that the Universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose.

That's it exactly, I think.  
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Geoff
May 30, 2008, 9:53am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from douglasleee
What would you think, for example, if one of these "ufo's" were like a "dron" aircraft, sent by an alien, but it was
"unmanned" and just sent to see what was on Earth - sending results back to the place of origin? Granted, the
travel alone is still in your favor. Not much different from the Phoenix, but


Have a look at the Haldane quote above. A robot probe is the sort of thing we'd do: it's not out of the question, of course; but my point is that whatever's out there in space, assuming there's anything like intelligent life in the sense we mean it, wouldn't be doing the same sorts of things were doing: they're aliens, after all, the end products of a completely separate line of evolutionary development. They probably wouldn't think like us at all or produce a technology we'd even recognize as such.  
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Geoff
June 1, 2008, 2:35am Report to Moderator

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Mars' Water Appears To Have Been Too Salty To Support Life

ScienceDaily (May 30) — A new analysis of the Martian rock that gave hints of water on the Red Planet -- and, therefore, optimism about the prospect of life -- now suggests the water was more likely a thick brine, far too salty to support life as we know it.

The finding, by scientists at Harvard University and Stony Brook University, is detailed May 30 in the journal Science.

"Liquid water is required by all species on Earth and we've assumed that water is the very least that would be necessary for life on Mars," says Nicholas J. Tosca, a postdoctoral researcher in Harvard's Department of Organismic and Evolutionary Biology. "However, to really assess Mars' habitability we need to consider the properties of its water. Not all of Earth's waters are able to support life, and the limits of terrestrial life are sharply defined by water's temperature, acidity, and salinity."

Together with co-authors Andrew H. Knoll and Scott M. McLennan, Tosca analyzed salt deposits in four-billion-year-old Martian rock explored by NASA's Mars Exploration Rover, Opportunity, and by orbiting spacecraft. It was the Mars Rover whose reports back to Earth stoked excitement over water on the ancient surface of the Red Planet.

The new analysis suggests that even billions of years ago, when there was unquestionably some water on Mars, its salinity commonly exceeded the levels in which terrestrial life can arise, survive, or thrive.

"Our sense has been that while Mars is a lousy environment for supporting life today, long ago it might have more closely resembled Earth," says Knoll, Fisher Professor of Natural Sciences and professor of Earth and planetary sciences at Harvard. "But this result suggests quite strongly that even as long as four billion years ago, the surface of Mars would have been challenging for life. No matter how far back we peer into Mars' history, we may never see a point at which the planet really looked like Earth."

Tosca, Knoll, and McLennan studied mineral deposits in Martian rock to calculate the "water activity" of the water that once existed on Mars. Water activity is a quantity affected by how much solute is dissolved in water; since water molecules continuously adhere to and surround solute molecules, water activity reflects the amount of water that remains available for biological processes.

The water activity of pure water is 1.0, where all of its molecules are unaffected by dissolved solute and free to mediate biological processes. Terrestrial seawater has a water activity of 0.98. Decades of research, largely from the food industry, have shown that few known organisms can grow when water activity falls below 0.9, and very few can survive below 0.85.

Based on the chemical composition of salts that precipitated out of ancient Martian waters, Tosca and his colleagues project that the water activity of Martian water was at most 0.78 to 0.86, and quite possibly reaching below 0.5 as evaporation continued to concentrate the brines, making it an environment uninhabitable by terrestrial species.

"This doesn't rule out life forms of a type we've never encountered," Knoll says, "but life that could originate and persist in such a salty setting would require biochemistry distinct from any known among even the most robust halophiles on Earth."

The scientists say that the handful of terrestrial halophiles -- species that can tolerate high salinity -- descended from ancestors that first evolved in purer waters. Based on what we know about Earth, they say that it's difficult to imagine life arising in acidic, oxidizing brines like those inferred for ancient Mars.

"People have known for hundreds of years that salt prevents microbial growth," Tosca says. "It's why meat was salted in the days before refrigeration."

Tosca and Knoll say it's possible there may have been more dilute waters earlier in Mars' history, or elsewhere on the planet. However, the area whose rocks they studied -- called Meridiani Planum -- is believed, based on Mars Rover data, to have been one of the wetter, more hospitable areas of ancient Mars.

Tosca, Knoll, and McLennan's work was supported by NASA and the Harvard Origins of Life Project.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/05/080529141404.htm
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Geoff
June 2, 2008, 6:06am Report to Moderator

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Camera On Arm Looks Beneath NASA Mars Lander

ScienceDaily (Jun. 1) — A view of the ground underneath NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander adds to evidence that descent thrusters dispersed overlying soil and exposed a harder substrate that may be ice.

The image received Friday night from the spacecraft's Robotic Arm Camera shows patches of smooth and level surfaces beneath the thrusters.

"This suggests we have an ice table under a thin layer of loose soil," said the lead scientist for the Robotic Arm Camera, Horst Uwe Keller of Max Planck Institute for Solar System Research, Katlenburg-Lindau, Germany.

"We were expecting to find ice within two to six inches of the surface," said Peter Smith of the University of Arizona, Tucson, principal investigator for Phoenix. "The thrusters have excavated two to six inches and, sure enough, we see something that looks like ice. It's not impossible that it's something else, but our leading interpretation is ice."

The Phoenix mission is led by Smith at the University of Arizona with project management by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/05/080531231836.htm

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alexis
June 2, 2008, 3:34pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Geoff
Mars' Water Appears To Have Been Too Salty To Support Life

ScienceDaily (May 30) — A new analysis of the Martian rock that gave hints of water on the Red Planet -- and, therefore, optimism about the prospect of life -- now suggests the water was more likely a thick brine, far too salty to support life as we know it....

The new analysis suggests that even billions of years ago, when there was unquestionably some water on Mars, its salinity commonly exceeded the levels in which terrestrial life can arise, survive, or thrive...

"This doesn't rule out life forms of a type we've never encountered," Knoll says, "but life that could originate and persist in such a salty setting would require biochemistry distinct from any known among even the most robust halophiles on Earth." ...

The scientists say that the handful of terrestrial halophiles -- species that can tolerate high salinity[color=red][/color] -- descended from ancestors that first evolved in purer waters. Based on what we know about Earth, they say that it's difficult to imagine life arising in acidic, oxidizing brines like those inferred for ancient Mars...




Quoted from alexis
On May 29, 2008 at 05:19 PM alexis wrote:

"Salt. Need salt."



I love John,
I love Paul,
And George and Ringo,
I love them all!

Alexis
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pc31
June 3, 2008, 3:55am Report to Moderator

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just as i thought.........isn't that an audi track on the right???



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DaveRam
June 3, 2008, 10:47am Report to Moderator

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I've seen a UFO , i saw it with my mum and she never touches the weed


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Geoff
June 3, 2008, 3:48pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from DaveRam
I've seen a UFO , i saw it with my mum and she never touches the weed


Never mind UFO's; when I see one of these schlepping up the road, I'll be convinced.  



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BlueMeanie
June 4, 2008, 8:30am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Geoff


Never mind UFO's; when I see one of these schlepping up the road, I'll be convinced.  





Mother!!!


I just want you to reassure him - talk to him, make him see the error of his ways. Then I'll hit him.
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Geoff
June 26, 2008, 11:54am Report to Moderator

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This is interesting:  

Largest Crater In Solar System Revealed By NASA Spacecraft

ScienceDaily (June 26) — New analysis of Mars' terrain using NASA spacecraft observations reveals what appears to be by far the largest impact crater ever found in the solar system.

NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter and Mars Global Surveyor have provided detailed information about the elevations and gravity of the Red Planet's northern and southern hemispheres. A new study using this information may solve one of the biggest remaining mysteries in the solar system: Why does Mars have two strikingly different kinds of terrain in its northern and southern hemispheres? The huge crater is creating intense scientific interest.

The mystery of the two-faced nature of Mars has perplexed scientists since the first comprehensive images of the surface were beamed home by NASA spacecraft in the 1970s. The main hypotheses have been an ancient impact or some internal process related to the planet's molten subsurface layers. The impact idea, proposed in 1984, fell into disfavor because the basin's shape didn't seem to fit the expected round shape for a crater. The newer data is convincing some experts who doubted the impact scenario.

"We haven't proved the giant-impact hypothesis, but I think we've shifted the tide," said Jeffrey Andrews-Hanna, a postdoctoral researcher at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Cambridge.

Andrews-Hanna and co-authors Maria Zuber of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and Bruce Banerdt of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., report the new findings in the journal Nature this week.

A giant northern basin that covers about 40 percent of Mars' surface, sometimes called the Borealis basin, is the remains of a colossal impact early in the solar system's formation, the new analysis suggests. At 8,500 kilometers (5,300 miles) across, it is about four times wider than the next-biggest impact basin known, the Hellas basin on southern Mars. An accompanying report calculates that the impacting object that produced the Borealis basin must have been about 2,000 kiolometers (1,200 miles) across. That's larger than Pluto.

"This is an impressive result that has implications not only for the evolution of early Mars, but also for early Earth's formation," said Michael Meyer, the Mars chief scientist at NASA Headquarters in Washington.

This northern-hemisphere basin on Mars is one of the smoothest surfaces found in the solar system. The southern hemisphere is high, rough, heavily cratered terrain, which ranges from 4 to 8 kilometers (2.5 to 5 miles) higher in elevation than the basin floor.

Other giant impact basins have been discovered that are elliptical rather than circular. But it took a complex analysis of the Martian surface from NASA's two Mars orbiters to reveal the clear elliptical shape of Borealis basin, which is consistent with being an impact crater.

One complicating factor in revealing the elliptical shape of the basin was that after the time of the impact, which must have been at least 3.9 billion years ago, giant volcanoes formed along one part of the basin rim and created a huge region of high, rough terrain that obscures the basin's outlines. It took a combination of gravity data, which tend to reveal underlying structure, with data on current surface elevations to reconstruct a map of Mars elevations as they existed before the volcanoes erupted.

"In addition to the elliptical boundary of the basin, there are signs of a possible second, outer ring -- a typical characteristic of large impact basins," Banerdt said.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080625223036.htm
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