Quoted from Sandra

I really wanted to see what you thought about what I was trying to say in my post. I know it was long winded and boring, but I thought if we're going to use a certain book as a standard of belief than we should look at more than just one passage. What do you make of the rest of it? I mean, do you see my point as valid or not? And if not, why? I'm only just wondering. I mean, we can end the discussion and I understand, but I was just curious as to your thoughts. Which I will respect no matter what I personally feel myself.  

Sandra, you brought up very valid points. As for my religious beliefs, I for some reason, have always taken the Old Testament as the actual meanings of God. I was taught that God, although an image of peace and love, was also stern to people who did not obey his will. The New Testament to me was always the teachings of Jesus who in turn took Gods lessons and (in another words) lightened them up. Meaning that people werent good enough to really follow the strict order that God commanded. As if they would fail regardless so Jesus added some loopholes in the rules. Even being Gods son, Jesus was allowed to be punished also, but alas, for our sins. I'm almost guaranteed to be wrong, but i've always felt deep down that it was better to follow Gods rules than the messengers even if it was Jesus, but thats my own personal ideal.  

Quoted from Joost

And just how much do you love your gay friends, Dave?  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        




Sorry for that.  

I love them a lot Joost . I had three but Andy who was my best friend was batterd to death in January of 2000
A kinder more centle person you could'nt  wish to meet .
To this day i can't believe people can be so cruel .
He was a smashing bloke , he was a record collector  i met him at a record fair , he knew more about music than anyone i ever knew .
The sad thing is , these kind of discussion's always paint gay people as somekind of perverts . I just don't see that  , he liked  men , where as i like women .
It was his preference and i  won't judge anyone on that , all i know is i miss him as do his family and friends

He would have laughed at this discussion he thought we were the queer buggers and reading through this he was probably right

DaveRam, I'm so sorry to hear about your friend. I think many het people would be shocked by the number of gay people that are in their lives at this very moment and they don't know it-- decent, delightful people. I think the harm in denying they exist is the same harm in invalidating anyone for who they are, such as calling me dumb because I'm a woman (or any other male or female gender-bashing, or any racial epithet). These people are here and deserve to have the same ability to live their lives freely as people of another orientation. I only hope that, as people who are unused to the idea get more exposure to it, they will cease to be shocked and start to realize that gay people are just folks, same as them.  

It was such a shock to lose a friend in that way harihead , i had some really great drunken times with him and boy could he drink .

Quoted from tkitna

Am I so wrong as to not to accept that lifestyle?

I think it depends on the way you 'don't accept' it. If you throw someone out of your house just because he's homosexual, than yes, I think that's wrong. Cause then you're treating him like he's some kind of lesser human being who's not worthy of being in your presence. If you really can't accept it, than a better way of 'not accepting it' could have been for instance saying something like "Look, I don't understand or approve of whatever it is you do in your bedroom and to be honest it makes me feel uncomfortable, so I would appreciate it if you could try to avoid confronting me with it and then we're cool". Some homosexuals probably wouldn't accept that because they don't want to keep hiding who they are, some others would probably appreciate your honesty and see it as a reasonable compromise.

Quoted from DaveRam

[quote=56]
I love them a lot Joost . I had three but Andy who was my best friend was batterd to death in January of 2000
A kinder more centle person you could'nt  wish to meet .
To this day i can't believe people can be so cruel .

Sorry about your friend... (and sorry for my really lame joke)

You often hear parents say that they hope their children don't turn out to be homosexual. And that's not always because they're homophobic or because they want grandchildren or anything. Often it's purely because they know that homosexuals run the risk of becoming the victim of hate crimes, intolerance and discrimination. So sometimes you can't even really blame parents for not wanting to accept that a child turns out to be homosexual. Isn't that messed up?

I got the joke Joost

I understand tkitna. Do you think it is alright for children to observe it all? Most people are not born homo, they are dragged into it. And if it happens at an early age, at 10-14, children succumb, because at this age habits are formed and preferences are shaped. They do not quite see what is happening. I know a guy who said, if you once had it, it is hard to give it up, you are sure to return to it again. It`s like drugs. Jodie Foster watched her mother being in love with a woman who helped her raise the kids, and later was seduced by that woman, and became lesbian herself, which she publicly admitted not long ago ( though we certainly knew it ) If you had a sweet little daughter, and some of you do have, would you like her to become a man? Just imagine. Tkitna has children and you, young people , i suppose, i am sure, don`t. So you can`t understand him. This is a very hard topic, when it concerns our children. What do mothers, fathers and grandparents think on the subject?

Quoted from Jane

If you had a sweet little daughter, and some of you do have, would you like her to become a man?

Huh?

I wouldn`t. I have a niece.

But do you mean that 'being lesbian' is 'becoming a man'?

Quoted from Jane

Most people are not born homo, they are dragged into it.

I don't believe that at all. What's your source?

Quoted from Jane

If you had a sweet little daughter, and some of you do have, would you like her to become a man?

Hmmm, let's see... "Dad, I think I'm a lesbian. What should I do? Find a girlfriend that I can be happy with for the rest of my life? Or find a boyfriend because that's what society wants me to do? And then just hope that, even though I'm not the least bit attracted to men, I can tolerate him enough to keep up the scam?"

I can assure you that I would absolutely forbid her to pick option two.

Being a father of three, it would be absolutely fine with me if one, two or all should turn out to be gay or lesbian. As long as they're happy being the way they are, that is as much as I can wish for. As a matter of fact, two of my best friends are a lesbian couple and my boys ask them about it. They know: two people can fall in love. Mostly it's man and woman, but sometimes it's two men or two women. In our house there is nothing wrong with that. Still, I respect Todd's vision tho I'm not sharing it.

Here's another dilemma for you all...

We're all Beatles fans here, I bet you all listened to John Lennon when he asked you to imagine there's no heaven, no countries, no possessions... So now try to imagine this, OK?

This is the situation: you wake up one morning and find out that somehow your sex has changed. So if you're a man, imagine yourself being a woman, if you're a woman it's obviously the other way around. But the thing is: your sexual preference is unchanged. Same as it ever was. What are you going to do? Choose a partner of what is now the opposite sex or do you accept that you're going to have to be homosexual?