I'm fed up of Yoko bashing.

I think she's done some really interesting work in her time and the fact that she was John Lennon's soul mate improves my opinion of her. Unfounded rumors have no sway with me, she was right for John and I have no reason to doubt his judgement.

I don't know her as a person, but  as an artist, I think her so called art is absolute crap.

I think she and John were very self indulged. I think she annoyed the other Beatles. They seem to not have a whole lot of love for her. I think her 'music' is crap. I really don't care know about her art. Seems like a lot of hype. But avant garde is not for everyone I guess. But how can I hate her if I don't know her? If John was happy than she was good for him I guess. I just think the obsession thing was a little strange. I mean, a bed in the studio? It's not only presumptuous, but kind of rude.

Hey! What's a Yoko topic doing under Fifth Beatles??

She was on 'The Continuing Story of Bungalow Bill'. Please remember to vote for the nearest option that applies to your belief of her or her work, if you like.

I was just kidding.

If you like Yoko, please remember to join my forum dedicated to her life and work: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/yoko_ono/

;D

hahahaha...i mean really hahhahahaha


nice 1 ;)

i honestly, dont like her art, music, or the fact that she pissed off the beatles. the only thing that is redeeming and why i dont completely classify her as a soul-sucking, banshee-screaming whore, is that she did so much to influence john and his music and some of the best stuff he did was with her in mind. *shudder* i just dont understand him sometimes

Quoted from TheMasterOfGoingFaster

She was on 'The Continuing Story of Bungalow Bill'.

Thats why that song sucks.

I voted that I hate everything about her and everything she did. If there was something worse up there, i'd have voted for that.

I don't think she's in it enought to actually ruin it is she?! I like the song. Of course she does have that one really annoying part. But it kind of fits in. She sounds like a little kid. It annoys me that she horned her way onto a Beatles record though. I'm sure the others were thrilled. A woman on a Beatle record!?! Unheard of. Not as bad as TLAWR though.

Quoted from The_End

If you like Yoko, please remember to join my forum dedicated to her life and work: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/yoko_ono/

;D

Alrite so that's funny.

I'm tired of Yoko bashing, myself.
I never had anything against that woman.
Her art is funny as hell, I really like a lot of her songs.
And of course John loved her, and that's good enough for me.

I like her imagery, the way she inspired John, I don't think her singing is bad at all.

Sweeping generaliseation: Or are you one of these people that thinks certain art is brilliant because you don't understand what the hell it is you are looking at but don't want to sound intellectually inferior.

Tell me Jr, who are 'these people', names and examples of these people please.

'go read some harry potter site, 'cos you've got no clue'?

what the hells that supposed to mean...just cos he has a different opinion to you doesnt mean he doesnt know enough about the beatles ok?

Just ignore it legend.

great, the man chats crap

When it comes to conclusions we can say that Mrs Lennon sure knows how to get people debating about her. It's no secret that I'm no big fan of her and hers neither. Her art does not appeal to me at all, her singing is seriously painful to my ears. Over the years one could say she made some -friendly said- strange decisions regarding John's legacy. It's not my kind of woman. The whole lost weekend thing and all: it may have been more common in the early seventies, but I can't get rid of the idea that Yoko Ono had John under her spell.
Still, John Lennon was a grown up man when he met her. Responsible and fully aware (well, more of less) of his decisions. He decided to stay with her till the very end. We can endlessly discuss the depth of their love and how they depended on each other, but it's all some kind of speculation. We can discuss that Yoko did no good on the existence of The Beatles, but again, it was John's decision. What can we say?

^ True, fine and wise words.
But I'd like to put a little plug in for idle gossip, speculation and sheer fantasy. Where would we be without them. It's fun, and short of a lawsuit from Yoko, no harm done.

I should have gone with: It is wrong to judge somebody I've never met on rumors...
but actually in her case I cannot help but to  judge someone although I never met her.
That John loved her was good for him and him only.
So it's called art now what she does... yeah, whatever - if she hadn't John to support her...well...nuff said

Quoted from Kate

That John loved her was good for him and him only.

There's a lot of people who doubt even that...

Quoted from Kate

So it's called art now what she does... yeah, whatever - if she hadn't John to support her...well...nuff said

I hear you. But it's still speculation. There's rumours that she had some reputation before she met John. That is her art...

Quoted from Bobber

There's a lot of people who doubt even that...

I doubt that as well.

Quoted from Bobber

I hear you. But it's still speculation. There's rumours that she had some reputation before she met John. That is her art...

Yes, it is speculation, but you can't deny that John gave it all a real boost and it was to her pertinacity that her art finally and literally arrived at John's door. Even if she had quite a reputation before meeting him, I don't think she would have got the attention of, well, most of the world, as she did because of being a part of John&Yoko.
Where would she be if she didn't met him? Maybe she would have stalked Keith Richards or someone like that - oh what a couple that would have been  ;D

Quoted from Kate

Yes, it is speculation, but you can't deny that John gave it all a real boost and it was to her pertinacity that her art finally and literally arrived at John's door. Even if she had quite a reputation before meeting him, I don't think she would have got the attention of, well, most of the world, as she did because of being a part of John&Yoko.
Where would she be if she didn't met him? Maybe she would have stalked Keith Richards or someone like that - oh what a couple that would have been  ;D

That's an interesting question: where would Yoko be if she hadn't met John? In the army, perhaps. Mmm, maybe she could have stalked Ozzy Osbourne instead. But she sure knew who to approach.

Ozzy

Yeah, imagine her on a reality show with Ozzy going f*** all the time and her practise singing (till hell freezes over, which in her case must have been years ago), giggling her weird little-girl-giggle...or.....or..... even mind the kids (!!??!!)

What about this:

Yoko Ono Awarded International Prize

Valladolid, Spain, 12 Jun (Prensa Latina) John Lennon’s widow, Yoko Ono, was awarded the 2006 International Fine Arts Prize Monday, for her more than 50 years work and contribution to experimental, aesthetic and conceptual language.
Sponsored by the Cristobal Gabarron Foundation, the award consists of an original golden sculpture by the Spanish artist, for whom the recognition has been named.
Arguing its decision, the jury highlighted Ono´s innovative capacity, evidenced in diverse genres and manifestations of the visual arts since the decade of the 50s, and recalled her performances, installations, multimedia and music.
Closely related to vanguard trends since her arrival in New York in 1953, Yoko Ono participated in different projects in defense of peace together with Lennon. She will receive the important recognition in an official ceremony to be held on October 6.

Quoted from Bobber

What about this:

Yoko Ono Awarded International Prize

Valladolid, Spain, 12 Jun (Prensa Latina) John Lennon’s widow, Yoko Ono, was awarded the 2006 International Fine Arts Prize Monday, for her more than 50 years work and contribution to experimental, aesthetic and conceptual language.

....she still hasn't a name of her own....people (journalists) keep mentioning "...widow of John Lennon"....if that isn't a hint  ;) - only joking...of course she's an artist and deserves every award in the world ...I don't tell you what for though

Quoted from Kate

....she still hasn't a name of her own....people (journalists) keep mentioning "...widow of John Lennon"....if that isn't a hint  ;) - only joking...

No no, don't joke! Because it is very true... Very often it's 'Yoko Ono, John Lennon's widow'. I never hear 'John Lennon, Yoko Ono's late husband'.

I think it has nothing to do with age... And it's attacks from both sides. I'm a mod for two weeks now and I getting tired of it already. lol. It feels like home...where my kids (aged 2 and 4) are making trouble all the time...

I just cannot believe anybody can find enjoyment in her singing or art. As Kate mentioned earlier,  and the fact that everybody on this world knows also , is that if she hadnt been with John,,,,,nobody knows who she is. Trust me when I say her talents would not have held up on their own.

And to think that she actually tried to mooch off of Paul first. What a slant eyed c#nt!

John would have been dead in 68' if he didn't get together with Yoko.

On the 18th May 1968 John Lennon got The Beatles together for a meeting at Apple to announce that he was the current incarnation of Jesus Christ.

On the 19th May 1968 John Lennon got together with Yoko Ono for real.

"Fortunately, I met you at the right time."

She had how many art attempts?

Quoted from Bobber

She had how many art attempts?

Way to many.

Hey T, you should start a thread where we can make Yoko art. Whichever is the worst, wins. Shouldn't be tough to do.

I'll do it.

Feel free to join Yoko Ono's Yahoo Group - I started it myself and so far Dirk and me are the only two members!!! ;D

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/yoko_ono/

hahahah

I voted for I couldn't give two hoots either way about Yoko, because I don't hate her, since she didn't breakup the Beatles.  I don't like her as a vocalist at all & John could have fell in love with a hot babe.  

Yoko did not sing.  She squealed and shrieked.  

I didn't vote, but I  think the only good thing she did as far as I know is the vocals in War Is Over. And there's a credit to her for the song, presumably the part she sang.

Kiss Kiss Kiss, Sisters O Sisters and Born In A Prison are top tunes in my opinion. But please don't think any less of me!!!! ;D

Quoted from The End

....But please don't think any less of me!!!! ;D

ouch - too late mate! :P

LOL!! ;D

Quoted from 366

John would have been dead in 68' if he didn't get together with Yoko.

Why?

Yoko Ono Album Details Revealed
Yoko Ono has assembled an impressive line-up of leading indie artists for her forthcoming covers album, 'Yes, I'm A Witch'.
Pitchfork reports that Peaches, Le Tigre, Cat Power, Polyphonic Spree, Antony Hegarty, The Flaming Lips and The Sleepy Jackson will all feature on the album, a kind of remix/covers/duets hybrid.
Ono gave the artists exclusive access to her entire back catalogue, asking them to choose a song, then – according to a press release – "provided [them] with the vocals and whatever other instrumental elements attracted them from that cut. Almost all the artists chose just the vocals." The artists then went on to create a new version of the track.

'Yes, I'm A Witch' Tracklist:

1 Hank Shocklee: "Witch Shocktronica Intro"
2 Peaches: "Kiss Kiss Kiss"
3 Shitake Monkey: "O'Oh"
4 Blow Up: "Everyman...Everywoman"
5 Le Tigre: "Sisters O Sisters"
6 Porcupine Tree: "Death of Samantha"
7 DJ Spooky: "Rising"
8 Apples in Stereo: "No One Can See Me Like You Do"
9 The Brother Brothers: "Yes I'm a Witch"
10 Cat Power: "Revelations"
11 Polyphonic Spree: "You and I"
12 Jason Pierce (Spiritualized): "Walking on Thin Ice"
13 Antony and Hahn Rowe: "Toy Boat"
14 The Flaming Lips: "Cambridge 1969/2007"
15 The Sleepy Jackson: "I'm Moving On"
16 Hank Shocklee: "Witch Shocktronica Outro"
17 Craig Armstrong: "Shiranakatta (I Didn't Know)"

Soon on department store shelves everywhere.

Quoted from Kevin

Soon on department store shelves everywhere.

Do you think it will reach the bargain bins?

It's wrong to judge someone i've never met, whoever it is!

-No matter how vicious the rumors may be.  :P

There was an article in the papers in where the writer liked Yoko. She mentioned the Yoko Factor - that many NZers go for Asian people. What fluff!

Quoted from Andy Smith

It's wrong to judge someone i've never met, whoever it is!

Hitler?

Attila the Hun? Hirohito? Idi Amin?

Quoted from Andy Smith

It's wrong to judge someone i've never met, whoever it is!

Quoted from Kevin

Hitler?

Quoted from Bobber

Attila the Hun? Hirohito? Idi Amin?

Och, you know what he meant!

I'm sure Saddam Hussain was a nice kinda guy! :P :P ;D ;D

I try not to judge anyone , but sometimes i fail ;D

DaveRam :)

Yoko...I have mixed feelings about her. I mean, I like Cyn so much more, but Yoko I don't know. Half of me says, she just loved John, she wants to protect his memory and his music. The other half is saying, she broke up the beatles, she's a b****. Along that line. But, I mean I don't feel she was the WHOLE reason the Beatle's broke up. She might contributed.

See...mixed feelings.

The Beatles started to break up when Brain Epstein died. That's when all the
trouble started.

I totally agree! I always say that's when it started.  

There was trouble already when Yoko came into the picture.  She was just another nail in the coffin.  But I've always found her kinda weird.

Quoted from 679

I try not to judge anyone , but sometimes i fail ;D

I, on the other hand, judge everyone. *declares DaveRam not guilty*

There doesn't seem to be an option between "loves everything" and "hates everything". I had to settle for not giving 2 hoots. Given my real choice, I'd probably give one hoot.

Cheers.

Avant Garde, Aux Garbage.  Talentless, martyred, opportunist from hell.  Yoko OhNo OhNo OhNo.

not really my place to say...she let john be john and gave him guts to go totally overboard in the behavior department...i mean look at him....he got naked in front of the world and declared himself a virgin......so she controlled him...someone was always controlling him....she did him dirty in the end but maybe karma got him....

Quoted from pc31

no really my place to say...she let john be john and gave him guts to go totally overboard in the behavior department...i mean look at him....he got naked in front of the world and declared himself a virgin......so she controlled him...someone was always controlling him....she did him dirty in the end but maybe karma got him....

Good point.  

if you think about it,the fan base didn't want the beatles married to larger than life mates,all the other beatle women were quiet and were more or less in the background...subordinate so to speak...yoko was elevated to johns equal by him and was more outspoken than the others..this could be part of the reason alot of people don't like her....she did take full advantage of her situation too...

I agree with you pc31, Linda was there while recording Let It Be, but she never gave 2 cents, or told Paul what to do. I can not remember where I read this, but Yoko said something like, John made me realise who I was, he influenced me, I didn't change him. Or something like that, I can't remember where I read it, but it was a while ago. So, that might be totally wrong, but it was something along those lines. But you have to realize, she wasn't just there for money or fame, she loved him. If she didn't she would be married by now.

Quoted from DarkSweetLady

. But you have to realize, she wasn't just there for money or fame, she loved him. If she didn't she would be married by now.

How does that explain Yoko setting John up with May Pang?
She "commenced" a relationship with Sam Haveldtoy(sp) within months of Johns death. It is rumoured they were having an affair long before John's death (just as John continued to see May Pang after the reconcilliation). . It is also rumoured that Yoko and Sam secretly married.

Quoted from pc31

no really my place to say...she let john be john and gave him guts to go totally overboard in the behavior department...i mean look at him....he got naked in front of the world and declared himself a virgin......so she controlled him...someone was always controlling him....she did him dirty in the end but maybe karma got him....

Agree totally with that - Mimi, Brian, Yoko - his life is dominated by having control figures telling him what to do. When he doesn't - post touring and "the lost weekend" he seems to have no idea on how to direct his own life.

Quoted from Kevin

How does that explain Yoko setting John up with May Pang?
She "commenced" a relationship with Sam Haveldtoy(sp) within months of Johns death. It is rumoured they were having an affair long before John's death (just as John continued to see May Pang after the reconcilliation). . It is also rumoured that Yoko and Sam secretly married.

They were married in 1981.  Since divorced--all very quiet to perpetuate the myth, after all, she was prepared to divorce John in early 1980.

Quoted from 834

They were married in 1981.  Since divorced--all very quiet to perpetuate the myth, after all, she was prepared to divorce John in early 1980.

Cheers. Don't know why people are so keen to hang on to the sterilised myth. The truth is so much more interesting.

Because it makes for a 'beautiful' story.  Good lord.  She treated him like a helpless child and it just got worse as time went on.  She was what? 30 steps ahead of him when he was being pumped full of lead?  All of the BS about her going into seclusion afterward has been disproved.  She was out to dinner the night after it happened, which is fine, but why martyr yourself?  He got shipped upstate NY to be cremated which was NOT his wish, and the list goes on.  Somehow the myth perpetuates.  I don't like her.

Agreed. But I have equal distaste for John who allowed himself to be placed in this position. If she treated him like a helpless child then it was because he behaved like one. I like neither of them.

Here's my Pop psychology 2 cents:  I think John was terribly afraid of losing another person that he loved or once loved and put his trust in, and Yoko was more involved in his life than anyone.  He lost his parents in horrible ways-Dad leaving, Julia just coming back to him then got killed.  Stu--his best friend and probable soulmate, Brian Epstein, his band especially the distance with Paul, all he had left was Yoko.  He made an outrageous spectacle of himself with her, clung to her as if he was really going down for the last time, and she turned out to be a mess.  May Pang was a crapshoot, the public perception was terribly important, there would be no 'Lost Weekend' triumph again. He'd alienated most if not all of his old friends.  She was a beacon that was more of a mirage.  Sad.

Quoted from 834

  She was a beacon that was more of a mirage.  Sad.

Ooh - I like that.
I think you're bang on.

Yes, very well put.

I enjoyed this discussion a lot, guys. Thanks.

Fortunately we do not know what happened, it is niether the love story nor the hate story or the myth which you make for yourself story. The truth, as ever, is somewhere in the middle...

Quoted from Kevin

Hitler?

Are you saying that what happened there were rumours?

Quoted from Whoever

Are you saying that what happened there were rumours?

How on earth did you come to that conclusion? I was pointing out that it is possible (sometimes even necessary) to judge people we've never met. Hitler and Yoko included.

From this poll selection that Andy Smith was alluding to: "It is wrong to judge somebody I've never met on rumors...".

Quoted from Whoever

From this poll selection that Andy Smith was alluding to: "It is wrong to judge somebody I've never met on rumors...".

I see. Then I vote for none. Because I think the ever growing pile of testimony from so many people about the nature of their relationship is taking this beyond the mere rumour stage. It is of course something that can never be proven (even if John were alive it is unlikely he would be truthful or even aware of its true nature.)
But Mrs Lennon seems rather lacking in corrorabative witnesses, has both means and motive, and I find her guilty of living with John under false pretences and exploiting his vulnerable nature. And I find him guilty of complicity by his refusal to do anything other than allow himself to be treated like a beaten and cowering lap dog

You make things so clear...

Quoted from Kevin

I see. Then I vote for none. Because I think the ever growing pile of testimony from so many people about the nature of their relationship is taking this beyond the mere rumour stage. It is of course something that can never be proven (even if John were alive it is unlikely he would be truthful or even aware of its true nature.)
But Mrs Lennon seems rather lacking in corrorabative witnesses, has both means and motive, and I find her guilty of living with John under false pretences and exploiting his vulnerable nature. And I find him guilty of complicity by his refusal to do anything other than allow himself to be treated like a beaten and cowering lap dog

Amen.  For all of the 'myth-busting' he did, he perpetuated some of the biggies.

A bit of a contradiction of himself you might say...

Quoted from Whoever

A bit of a contradiction of himself you might say...

He contradicted himself all the time.  Sometimes in the same sentence.

Quoted from 834

They were married in 1981.  Since divorced--all very quiet to perpetuate the myth, after all, she was prepared to divorce John in early 1980.

I can only find one reference to this, but it doesn't say they were married. I can't find anything about her being prepared to divorce John, though I do find the inclusion of a song like 'I'm Losing You' on Double Fantasy a bit odd if they weren't in trouble.

Define: love.

Quoted from 834

He contradicted himself all the time.  Sometimes in the same sentence.

LOL! Yes, that's true. It's why I have to take John's pronouncements with a grain of salt. Like many public figures, he connived at his image. That's fine; he's entitled to say or do whatever he wants. But I have to work a little harder with John to figure out where he was really coming from, and the best way to do that is to compare what he said to what he actually did.

Not sure if we know for a fact Yoko was remarried after John. 834, is your reference Goldman's book? Generally very well researched, I thought. Many of his statements which were so shocking upon initial publication have stood the test of time. I do have to watch for his drifts into fantasy land, signalled by, "John thinks..." (whatever). Nice mind-reading job by Goldman. But if there's quite a bit there that I'm prepared to believe about Yoko, based on what she said and what she actually did. Compare Cynthia's report about Julian's treatment at the Dakota to Yoko's official statement released after John's death; I think that's one very good indication of her character. Cheers.

It's amazing the amount of peope who really know what they are talking about.

Quoted from harihead

Not sure if we know for a fact Yoko was remarried after John.

You can find it online as well.  She refuses to talk about Havadtoy in interviews and makes that a caveat before she will agree to an interview.  Nobody likes to think that she was capable of being with anyone besides John for some reason.  She is human after all (kind of), but the public has been brainwashed to think their 'love' was exclusive, which is a bunch of bull.

Thanks, 834. Online where? What is the source? Cheers!

If you Google Yoko Ono Sam Havadtoy, you'll come up with quite a few references/sites.

Quoted from 834

If you Google Yoko Ono Sam Havadtoy, you'll come up with quite a few references/sites.

Again, what's YOUR source? Still can't find any reference to her being married to him. It's known that she had the relationship, but give us some links where it says she was married?

Quoted from BlueMeanie

Again, what's YOUR source? Still can't find any reference to her being married to him. It's known that she had the relationship, but give us some links where it says she was married?

Yes, it's really tough.  Look online and ye shall find.  Handle it.

Quoted from 834

Yes, it's really tough.  Look online and ye shall find.  Handle it.

Well, why don't you just post your links?

If you want to see the state of their 'love', listen to the "Dakota Demos" bootleg.  If John was reporting as he was wont to do, it paints a very dirge-like picture.  He tries to be hopeful in some songs, but for the most part, it's pretty torch-like.  Also proves that he created, though he denied it, during the house-husband years.

Yes 834, I'm sure everything was exactly like you say it was. No room for question.

Quoted from 834

If you Google Yoko Ono Sam Havadtoy, you'll come up with quite a few references/sites.

I couldn't find anything. Please give a reference. I would like to know.

Quoted from Kevin

I couldn't find anything. Please give a reference. I would like to know.

I can find no reference, and he doesn't seem to want to name his sources.

Didn't like any of the options, so I held off on the actual poll bit. ;)

My personal feelings...personally, I don't think Yoko and I would get along, but there's no argument that John really needed her personally, musically, artistically in general, etc. So I suppose I'm not a huge fan - her art is really not my favourite, and although I admittedly am listening to 'Kiss, Kiss, Kiss' right now and humming it absently under my breath, her music for the most part isn't fab either - I think it was essential that she and John got together, and I really admire what they did politically, some of which Yoko the avant-garde artist was quite an inspiration for.

I don't know, I just chose not to judge her.

I don't idolize her or anything, but I respect her, and I don't hate her. I'm sick of Yoko bashing as well. It's old, and most of the reasons for it are crap anyways.

Quoted from BlueMeanie

I can find no reference, and he doesn't seem to want to name his sources.

IMDB says: "Some time after her husband's murder, Ono began a relationship with antiques dealer Sam Havadtoy, which lasted until 2001. They were never legally married."

I ve read in a paper she had a relationship while John was babysitting. And i think it is true.

For me Yoko is alright, when i read an bad article about her i would tend to not like her ,wheni read a good article about her i would like her.
Sometimes i don't really like her at all but she made John happy so it's what that matters to me. :)

Well, certainly she contributed to the band`s break up, but John had a complete fixation on her. I think John-Yoko love was one of the greatest in the 20th century, if we take the first 5 years.

I hate the stuff she made in Double Fantasy.

Uhhhm... I love the Japanese and all, but whatever that was coming out of her throat was certainly not music by my standards...
I found the bond between her and John to be a beautiful thing, even if I am not for all of that Make Love not War or stay-in-bed-so-as-not-to-make-war crud... And even though most people don't know about John and her assistant.
But, I felt that she and John broke a very sacred thing-- don't bring your woman into the studio or the session... And she intruded. She didn't take the hints... The Beatles were positively PERFECT with only 4 members and I do sort of blame her for the break-up a bit. -_-'

I hate her screaming, but I think the songs where she doesn't scream are not really that bad. And some of them have very good instrumentation by John.

i hate the songs she sings on but love the songs she dosen't sing on!  :P :P