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[alexis]

... improved in over the course of their career (i.e., up through 1969)?

I found this harder to answer than I thought it would be at first. For example ... harmonies? Well, they started out with some pretty good ones (like "To Know Her is to Love Her"), and they were doing awesome 3 part harmonies as early as 1963 or so, like in songs "I'll Get You in the End".

Music writing? That might be tough, some of their best songs were written years before they broke up.

What would you folks think? Facial hair?

[Casbah]

I would say musicianship,with Harrison the most improved, McCartney next and Lennon after that.  Ringo actually got worse in my eyes. His role was diminished as the songs became more intricate and he struggled through some songs that were written with off timings...("When I hold you, Im my arms")  But all in all, I think they constantly moved forward and improved and brought something new with every album.

[Mr. Mustard]

Interesting thought about Ringo, Casbah. What other songs/performances do you think Ringo didn't quite cut the mustard on?  What are your thoughts on his Abbey Road drum solo, or Tomorrow Never Knows?

And for the life of me, I can't place the lyric of "When I hold you, in my arms," though it's probably because I have the radio on and a Cars song is playing.  Which song is that again?

[Mr. Mustard]

And, I should probably add, in keeping with the theme of the thread, I think the Beatles improved on their willingness to experiment, to record what they wanted rather than what the music industry dictated as acceptable.  (Which did lead to things like Revolution 9, admittedly, but not all experiments are successes, right?)

The Beatles' confidence in their work and talent made anything they did commercially successful -- they were the pied pipers.

[Sondra]

Interesting thought about Ringo, Casbah. What other songs/performances do you think Ringo didn't quite cut the mustard on?  What are your thoughts on his Abbey Road drum solo, or Tomorrow Never Knows?

And for the life of me, I can't place the lyric of "When I hold you, in my arms," though it's probably because I have the radio on and a Cars song is playing.  Which song is that again?

"When I hold you in my arms. And I feel my finger on your trigger...."

 

[Mr. Mustard]

Yes, that's it!  Thank you Sandra!

Next time I listen to Happiness is a Warm Gun, I'll listen to the drumming.... but I hope that doesn't ruin the song for me, it's one of my favorites.

[An Apple Beatle]

evolved

[Casbah]

Interesting thought about Ringo, Casbah. What other songs/performances do you think Ringo didn't quite cut the mustard on?  What are your thoughts on his Abbey Road drum solo, or Tomorrow Never Knows?

And for the life of me, I can't place the lyric of "When I hold you, in my arms," though it's probably because I have the radio on and a Cars song is playing.  Which song is that again?

Oh I thought the AR solo was fantastic. and Tomorrow Never Knows drumming is great stuff.  I think he was a very capable drummer, I just felt he didn't show much progress after Revolver.  His drumming became more simplified, if anything.  You know, you heard "Rain" and you thought WOW this is something new!. But he just didn't move on past that, he retreated to a simpler style. But I don't feel it took away from the music in any way.

[alexis]

Does anyone think John improved as a guitarist?

I've read he learned a new picking style from Donovan for "Julia", but beyond that?

Listening to his solo turns in the guitar bit of Abbey Road's "Love You" (is that officially part of "The End", or the previous song?) - does anyone think he advanced much beyond the techniques he showed back around 1966/ Rubber Soul? Apple, Fender?

[Sondra]

Oh I thought the AR solo was fantastic. and Tomorrow Never Knows drumming is great stuff.  I think he was a very capable drummer, I just felt he didn't show much progress after Revolver.  His drumming became more simplified, if anything.  You know, you heard "Rain" and you thought WOW this is something new!. But he just didn't move on past that, he retreated to a simpler style. But I don't feel it took away from the music in any way.

I think he pretty much did what he was told. Did they ever really give Ringo the freedom or confidence to be experimental on their songs or was it more of, this is how I want it done?

[HeatherBoo]

They kept up with the times.  Most bands stick with a sound and can't branch out and be successful.  

[alexis]

I think he pretty much did what he was told. Did they ever really give Ringo the freedom or confidence to be experimental on their songs or was it more of, this is how I want it done?

I think I remember reading that except for a few songs where he was told what to play (Ticket to Ride comes to mind; kind of like George being told what to play by John on "Eight Days a Week", or by Paul on "I've Got a Feeling" ) they just let Ringo go for it on his own, and as George Martin or one of them put it ..."Ringo never played a wrong beat". Sorry, I don't have a reference, maybe Geoff Emerick's book, or something? He was very experimental in Tomorrow Never Knows, and what little I know about drumming I think Ringo had his own style that he played as he wished.

If true, not bad for a guy who was bored during the pre-recording phases of Sgt. Pepper, playing Solitare till the others were ready to put something down!

[An Apple Beatle]

Does anyone think John improved as a guitarist?

I've read he learned a new picking style from Donovan for "Julia", but beyond that?

Listening to his solo turns in the guitar bit of Abbey Road's "Love You" (is that officially part of "The End", or the previous song?) - does anyone think he advanced much beyond the techniques he showed back around 1966/ Rubber Soul? Apple, Fender?

His picking may have improved but it strikes me that (as with probably all of them), John needed to be 'turned on' to apply himself and when he did, he could achieve a lot of styles. His laziness and lack of direction are also prevalent. The Long and Winding Road bassline springs to mind. They were tighter as a live unit at the beginning but the later albums he seemed to relax, maybe due to lack of having to gig.

Perhaps a strummer at the beginning to all rounder. What he had was taste, (As shown in those Abbey Rd End licks) an ear for rhythm and harmony, good equilibrium but no master of any style. He also had time to get it right in the studio in a lot of takes. It's an interesting change of dynamic and I'm not knocking it, I like it.

I'm supposing it was Lennon who came up with the Dig A Pony riff? That's slick, as is Across The Universe.

[tkitna]

Oh I thought the AR solo was fantastic. and Tomorrow Never Knows drumming is great stuff.  I think he was a very capable drummer, I just felt he didn't show much progress after Revolver.  His drumming became more simplified, if anything.  You know, you heard "Rain" and you thought WOW this is something new!. But he just didn't move on past that, he retreated to a simpler style. But I don't feel it took away from the music in any way.

I'm going to have to disagree about Ringo's drumming not evolving past Revolver. 'A Day In The Life' was incredible. Those fills were 100% Ringo and I doubt anybody could copy them with that kind of feeling and touch. 'Strawberry Fields' was another monster song for Ringo. The White Album is filled with great drumming tunes,,,,'While My Guitar Gently Weeps' (hate the song, but it grooves), 'Long Long Long', 'Helter Skelter', etc,,. Abbey Road? Are you kidding me? Thats his best album for drumming ever in my opinion. His triplet pattern in 'Come Together' is one of the most famous drumming patterns in popular music (maybe equaled only to his running gallop in 'Get Back'). I will admit that 'Oh Darling' isnt the greatest, but it worked (not fond of the tune anyways), 'Polythene Pam' has that unique tom groove that finds its way back to the snare, etc,,,,.

Nah, I cant agree with that. Drumming is more than just speed and how many beats you can fit into a bar.

(As for Rain, when I first heard it I thought to myself that it would be a fun song to play, but it was nothing special. I still dont know why he ranks that as his best song unless the grass he was smoking was something special on that day. It was the first Beatle song I ever learned. If your a drummer, try playing 'I feel Fine' and then we'll talk.)

They steadily increased drug intake

[DaveRam]

They steadily got grumpier ,infact they got really good at that (teeth1)
Their lyric writing improved especially in the middle period .

[theBEATLESrock_on]

their songs became more complex with time