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Author Topic: The Beatles and Dylan  (Read 2720 times)

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Restless Wind

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The Beatles and Dylan
« on: November 12, 2007, 03:00:15 AM »

In what musical and political ways did they mutually influence each other?
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Mairi

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Re: The Beatles and Dylan
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2007, 06:14:06 AM »

Musically, Dylan inspired the Beatles to write more complex lyrics. The Beatles inspired Dylan to go electric.

I don't think they really influenced each other politically though.
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walrus_21

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Re: The Beatles and Dylan
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2007, 06:51:46 PM »

I think Dylan influenced the Beatles' politics immeasurably.  "More complex lyrics" is true, but you must express something through them, unless they're gibberish, like "I am the Walrus."  (Here come the jelly babies ...)
I think Dylan's sense of justice (listen to "The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll," among others) informed everything about the Beatles for years to come.  
It's not to say the lads didn't have this in them; they had a strong distaste for those who looked down on them and other working-class people, but pop music wasn't the place to make statements until Dylan's folk sensibilities became popular song.  (He was criticized for leaving that fold, too.)
From justice comes peace.  
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BlueMeanie

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Re: The Beatles and Dylan
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2007, 11:09:00 PM »

Quote from: 789
I think Dylan influenced the Beatles' politics immeasurably.

Could you quote some lyrics to back that statement up? Apart from Taxman, and Revolution, where's the politics in Beatles songs?
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Sondra

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Re: The Beatles and Dylan
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2007, 01:33:29 AM »

I think he influenced them to be more outspoken about things and write songs with more meaning, but I don't see a lot of politics in their songs. John later on yeah, but as a Beatle only slightly. The Beatles tended not to pontificate like Bob did. If their music had a message it was more subtle. I think they felt it wasn't their place to preach to people. I don't know.
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pc31

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Re: The Beatles and Dylan
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2007, 05:12:26 AM »

dylan changed the beatles musical direction....him and pot.....
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Kevin

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Re: The Beatles and Dylan
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2007, 09:28:06 AM »

Quote from: 483

Could you quote some lyrics to back that statement up? Apart from Taxman, and Revolution, where's the politics in Beatles songs?

 :)  If you're right that means of the The Beatles 2 political songs, one is a moan about paying richmans taxes (who needs nurses?) and the other saying "don't do anything naughty, things are quite fine as they are thank you" (buy Beatle recods, buy Beatle records, buy...) they must have warmed the cockels of Dylans heart.
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BlueMeanie

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Re: The Beatles and Dylan
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2007, 09:38:13 AM »

Quote from: 185

 :)  If you're right that means of the The Beatles 2 political songs, one is a moan about paying richmans taxes (who needs nurses?) and the other saying "don't do anything naughty, things are quite fine as they are thank you" (buy Beatle recods, buy beatle records, buy...) they must have warmed the cockels of Dylans heart.

Well, it makes a point doesn't it. If those are the two most political songs The Beatles recorded. How radical is that!! ;)
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Kevin

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Re: The Beatles and Dylan
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2007, 09:53:34 AM »

And The Kinks Lazy Sunday Afternoon  with its  "the taxmans taken all my dough" is at least being ironic, mocking the rich. The Beatles via cosmic George are actually moaning about having to pay the bloody thing - and no irony intended. That's really calling the kids out into the streets! The chants: "12 point 5 is the max, We won't pay more income tax!" Call out the National Guard.
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Kevin

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Re: The Beatles and Dylan
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2007, 10:43:22 AM »

I'm scared now.
1967 - youth on the knife edge of a new and dangerous culture and The Beatles are quickly beamed around the planet  (I don't care how you do it -make up some story about an international TV transmission - just get them into every home in the world!!)  "All you need is love, don't fight...look at the pretty things.....doesn't the water taste funny?....read the signs..."  And of course "..buy Beatle records...buy Beatle records..buy"
1968 - Paris riots, King and Kennedy shot, anti-Vietnam demonstrations and The Beatles tell everyone to behave. "don't destroy property and the commies and the liberals don't know what they're talking about and are silly. Behave."  (....buy Beatle records.. buy Beatle records..buy)
1970 - Kent State, more riots/demo's, Manson, society totters on the brink and its " Just let it Be. Don't fight. When I get worried, I pray. Maybe go to church..?" (...kill yourselves it's over...kill yourselves its over..." )
And John Lennon's bed - in. What does that say? "Stay in bed....see, you can be angry and still stay in bed.....don't go outside and fight.....draw a funny picture and do something harmlessly pointless like post an acorn...."  (..help me! I'm being drugged..help me! I'm being drugged..help)
We're probably typing nuclear submarine codes now.
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don't follow leaders

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Re: The Beatles and Dylan
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2007, 03:45:37 PM »

Quote from: 218
Musically, Dylan inspired the Beatles to write more complex lyrics. The Beatles inspired Dylan to go electric.

I don't think they really influenced each other politically though.

Dylan DID inspire Lennon to become even more radicalized in his left-wing aspirations (of course this pre-dates Yoko's influence)--and I really think it made John even more confident in his fervent protests of the war in Southeast Asia as well as other liberal causes, so I disagree w/ you there.

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harihead

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Re: The Beatles and Dylan
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2007, 07:20:11 PM »

Great list, Kevin! *accidentally fires nuclear submarine... not a missile, the whole nuclear submarine! What a typo!*  ;D

The official messages from the government can always be looked at cynically-- I know I find it hard to do anything else these days. But I don't believe the Beatles were trying to send a message to control the youth (or cleverly packaged to have that affect). I think they were honestly communicating what they felt, whether it was politically correct or not (PC wasn't in their vocabulary then, thank goodness).

In my view, for that small part of history, people really did believe that if you loved hard enough, if you gave your soul to the cause, you could make a difference. I don't see why that attempt at change should be less laudible just because it didn't involve violence. I think many people (such as myself) saw it as an enlightened alternative.

Of course now we have lots of what I call New Age Noodlesh*t which grew out of this, where people say, "Send your wishes into the universe, and they will come back to you!" While there's a certain amount of truth in recognizing your goals, generally people need to be a little more active than "wishing" to have their goals come about. But that was all new thinking (in the West anyway) in the sixties, so I can't blame anyone who was trying it out for the first time. And we got some great songs out of it that are still pick-me-ups to this day. I believe a great deal of the Beatles' popularity is because they were positive.

This world hurls negative energy at us all the time. People enjoy a little relief. But the Beatles wised up politically as they got older, and I expect their fans will, too. Life isn't simple, and if often isn't kind. But it doesn't have to be a complete misery, even if things are not the way we'd like them. You need both: the grim reality and the comic relief. At least, I think so.
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All you've got to do is choose love.  That's how I live it now.  I learned a long time ago, I can feed the birds in my garden.  I can't feed them all. -- Ringo Starr, Rolling Stone magazine, May 2007<br />

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Re: The Beatles and Dylan
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2007, 08:08:01 PM »

Excellent, EXCELLENT comments both Kevin and Hari (even if they are slightly at odds) they were enjoyable to peruse. Personally, I tend not to think the Beatles were sending any covert messages (that was Led Zeppelin's purview (I jest), but I DO think they were unabashedly opinionated and didnt mince words...especially the one with horn-rimmed glasses  :)

The Beatles, like so many renowned artists b4 and after them just wanted a more peaceful and loving world and actively tried to send out good vibes to those willing to listen. Many did..still many others never will.
Just my silly opinion.

Peace, from a one-time hippy

-MMM
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Kevin

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Re: The Beatles and Dylan
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2007, 09:35:05 AM »

Quote from: 551
But I don't believe the Beatles were trying to send a message to control the youth (or cleverly packaged to have that affect).  
Quote from: 829
Personally, I tend not to think the Beatles were sending any covert messages  

Guys, guys, THAT'S their plan.
McCartney twigged so they knocked him off (they couldn't get him to take the mindcontrolling "LSD" in enough quantities.). They pulled the band from touring and set up a replacement. All Paul's songs were written by a giant computer codenmamed M.A.R.T.H.A .(Musical something something Apparatus.) John got suspicious  - they found out he'd been putting hidden messages in his songs and on the covers - so they sent in Yoko to keep him under constant watch (and sedated). They finally finished him off in 1980 when they realised no one was buying his music anymore. They'd already given Ringo a lobotomy in that "hospital" in 1964. (he was too smart and quick witted for his own good.) I think George was the inside man.
They'd tried controlling them with gamma rays beamed direct into the head.. They gave up after a clandenstine  test on ex-Beatle Stuart Sutcliffe went horribly wrong.
Disguising Agent Nine as a homosexual jewish appliance salesman was a stroke of genius. Shame - surplus to requirements once the need to keep them isolated and contained when on tour was no longer  needed. He was "relieved without notice."

The only person who got near the truth was Sergent Pilcher. He was the first copper to a car crash in 1966, but was quickly taken off the job. Only by chance did he notice the witnesses he'd seen that day were all dying mysterious deaths.  Ringo just mumbled rubbish and he couldn't get near Lennon or Harrison. He staged the Redlands bust because he heard George was there, but missed him by minutes. He staged a raid against Lennon and manged to get him alone for 10 minutes, but he was too far gone on sedatives. Yoko did her job well. He got to George (his fake drug bust method worked again) but didn't know that George was in on the whole thing.
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don't follow leaders

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Re: The Beatles and Dylan
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2007, 10:52:28 PM »

Funny stuff there, Kev..

(eating the hash brownies again, are we ?) ;D
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CleanOldMan

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Re: The Beatles and Dylan
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2007, 05:51:24 AM »

Don't forget that Dylan got the Beatles into pot.

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Re: The Beatles and Dylan
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2007, 08:01:14 PM »

ya think ?

(as early as late '64--NY)
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McLennon

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Re: The Beatles and Dylan
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2007, 07:27:56 PM »

Bob obviously liked Macca alot, he covered his song "yesterday", it's something i would never thought bob would do, cover another artist/cover the beatles/cover macca! but he did! and i like it! good on him!
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Re: The Beatles and Dylan
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2007, 09:11:28 PM »

yeah..and that's the LAST song you'd think Dylan would pick of Macca to cover...

hmmmm
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Andy Smith

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Re: The Beatles and Dylan
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2007, 03:37:56 PM »

Dylan should do a cover of We All Stand Together,  ;D :P
... well, that would probley wreck his career!
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