Topic: Yesterday co-written by George Martin? (Read 13252 times)

Bobber · « **on:** February 21, 2006, 08:14:16 PM »

Does George Martin have a point here?

MARTIN DEMANDS CREDIT FOR YESTERDAY

Songwriter GEORGE MARTIN is demanding recognition for co-writing THE BEATLES' hit YESTERDAY, insisting he penned the track alongside SIR PAUL McCARTNEY.

The song's composers are officially listed as McCartney and late Beatle JOHN LENNON, but Martin claims McCartney added Lennon's name to the songwriters list, despite the IMAGINE singer having no involvement in the melody.

He says, "We didn't know what to do with it. It was such a soppy tune, so I went away and wrote a score for a string quartet to go with it.

"Two days later I was rehearsing it and Paul McCartney walked in. He'd never seen a score before, and he said, 'It hasn't got my name on it.'

"So I handed him a pencil and he signed it.

"He wrote John Lennon's name too - although he had nothing to do with it - and added Esquire to mine."

raxo · « **Reply #1 on:** February 21, 2006, 08:37:27 PM »

The same old story ... Lennon/McCartney team is always fair to have the credits (not in my opinion) but when someone else (me sometimes) added that George, Ringo, Neil, Mal, Pete (Shotton), Sir George, Donovan, Yoko and many others collaborated too with bits here and there -at least as much as Paul or John, if not more, in lots of songs but without any credits- ... :

We discuss if John or Paul wrote/composed this or that but don't pay attention to others' help ... let's open our minds, please.

Sir George was on Yesterday, wasn't he? He should have got more credits for sure ... but he's not the only one.

The End · « **Reply #2 on:** February 22, 2006, 07:01:18 PM »

Any ideas where this story originated Bobber?

I am not trying to diminish what George Martin's contribution was to Yesterday but ultimately Paul wrote the words AND music - Martin scored and arranged it for a string quartet. If he'd suggested that She Loves You would have sounded better with a string arrangement would he want the songwriting credit for that too? He was the Beatles' producer and it was his job to interpret their ideas and come up with his own and ultimately get it all down on tape.

The next thing Mike Leander will want a share of the songwriting on She's Leaving Home!

Bobber · « **Reply #3 on:** February 22, 2006, 07:06:31 PM »

I agree with you here, TE. By the way, I read it on contactmusic.com.

Kevin · « **Reply #4 on:** February 23, 2006, 10:50:13 AM »

^Great answer End.

pc31 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 23, 2006, 11:38:27 AM »

doing his job.......yes exactly......i need credit too for buying the music....

raxo · « **Reply #6 on:** February 23, 2006, 04:36:51 PM »

Well, let's see ... let's see ...

Certainly Yesterday is not the same as any other song ... (almost released as a Macca solo song)

She's Leaving Home's story, for example, is quite diferent, because the idea of the arrangement -and the arrengement itself- was entirely Paul ... he needed Sir George just to write -not compose- the notes on a paper: that's all ... Sir George couldn't and it was done by Mike, OK ... Mike didn't compose anything on that one, so there's no place for credits, as far as I can see ... (oh!, John sang backing vocals too)

In the case of other songs (She Loves You ...) if the arrangement, harmonies and other things were defined by the composers (John+Paul, John or Paul) they matter would be a diferent one -the paper of the producer wouldn't be as important as it's in Yesterday- Sir George would collaborate doing his job as a part of a team, that's all, ... but his role in Yesterday is prominent, he's not just interpreting their ideas and if John got credits he should have too, why not? ... it would have been fair acording to the facts ...

If we think that Paul wrote the words and CHORDS but not the music - Martin scored and arranged it for a string quartet. Certainly Sir George defined the song, gave it its personality ... He did more than John, didn't he? ... What did John? ... but who got the credits instead?

It's a Macca song ... or a Macca/Martin (The Sirs) song ... but it's not a Lennon/McCartney one (John said once that he did nothing) :

It seems that everyone (DJs, public, ... ) have done more for the song than John

... but he got some money ... very unfair :-/

Summing up: the matter here is that John got credits ... if the line would say 'by Paul McCartney' I'm sure that nobody would be talking about all this ...

P.S. I think that the only ones that were just doing their job were the classical musicians ...

Kevin · « **Reply #7 on:** February 23, 2006, 04:39:21 PM »

Just to compare, how much of the arrangement in Walrus was Mr M interpreting Johns ideas or were George's own? Because that arrangement also defines Walrus as much as the lyric or the chords.

raxo · « **Reply #8 on:** February 23, 2006, 05:04:53 PM »

If you have listened to the track without the string arrangement you had seen how much it was already defined ... the vowel arrengement was entirely Sir George, by the way ... and John loved it

I was not going on that way when I used define, as you surely know.

After all, the thing on Yesterday was quite diferent 'cos the arrangement: a quartet and no drums or more guitars, was completely an idea of Sir George ... by that time it all was an acoustic guitar and vocal ... but in I Am The Walrus the thing is quite diferent ... he was collaborating -John ask him for an arrangement- ... as the rest of them ... even Paul was there ... at the studio ... playing and so, y'know

Kevin · « **Reply #9 on:** February 23, 2006, 05:10:08 PM »

^Very true. But we've all heard Paul play Yesterday live with just the guitar, and it's still Yesterday. Does then the arrangement really define the song, or just enhance it?

raxo · « **Reply #10 on:** February 23, 2006, 05:20:41 PM »

I never wanted to say that the arrangement defined the song but Sir George defined the song ... the guys played it with all their instruments on stage during their last tour in 1966 too. :-/
By the way, Paul also played Eleanor Rigby with just one acoustic guitar but it's not exactly the same, is it?

Kevin · « **Reply #11 on:** February 23, 2006, 05:23:37 PM »

Quote from: raxo

By the way, Paul also played Eleanor Rigby with just one acoustic guitar but it's not exactly the same, is it?

In the context of who should get writing credits, I'd have to say that yes, it is the same. :B*

never used the face before.

raxo · « **Reply #12 on:** February 23, 2006, 05:31:07 PM »

Quote from: kevin_b

In the context of who should get writing credits, I'd have to say that yes, it is the same. :B*

never used the face before.

When I mentioned Eleanor Rigby on one acoustic guitar I was answering your post about Yesterday on stage and the necessity of strings ... nothing about the credits ... you know that Eleanor Rigby's credits :

... well, another story there ...

Congrats ... for your face! LOL!

An Apple Beatle · « **Reply #13 on:** February 23, 2006, 05:32:32 PM »

All interesting. George was on a healthy salary to be a producer. I am sure also he would have picked up wages for his arrangement.

This kind of thing splits bands before they even begin and I have found myself in similar situations. I can imagine George becoming incredibly attached and also rightly proud about how he embellished and sometimes saved songs from relative obscurity or the bootleg scrapheap.
Add6's and 11's etc. She Loves You would never have been so interesting without these Martin touches.

To go one step further though and claim credits is certainly for me, an Uncool, UnGeorge thing to do. Still, with Macca himself seeming increasingly more concerned about these things then maybe these older gentlemen are concerned mainly by legacy. A vain thing to behold when the collective skill is what should be celebrated.

Legally, this is an area where music llawyers love to be.......Vultures!!!!!

raxo · « **Reply #14 on:** February 23, 2006, 05:32:37 PM »

But if you, Kevin, were talking about writing credits when you mentioned Yesterday on stage ... can you explain to me: Lennon/McCartney? ??) Because that's the matter to me: why John? ... and if so, why not Sir George too?

An Apple Beatle · « **Reply #15 on:** February 23, 2006, 05:38:25 PM »

Quote from: raxo

But if you, Kevin, were talking about writing credits when you mentioned Yesterday on stage ... can you explain to me: Lennon/McCartney? ??) Because that's the matter to me: why John? ... and if so, why not Sir George too?

Because it would open up a can of worms. (A great English saying.)

Kevin · « **Reply #16 on:** February 23, 2006, 05:43:58 PM »

Quote from: raxo

But if you, Kevin, were talking about writing credits when you mentioned Yesterday on stage ... can you explain to me: Lennon/McCartney? ??) Because that's the matter to me: why John? ... and if so, why not Sir George too?

I can't answer that Raxo. We all know the Lennon/McCartney thing is a crock. Apps has got it right - arrangers claiming credit is an uncool thing to do. Bugger the legality. :K)

raxo · « **Reply #17 on:** February 23, 2006, 05:53:09 PM »

Quote from: kevin_b

I can't answer that Raxo. We all know the Lennon/McCartney thing is a crock. Apps has got it right - arrangers claiming credit is an uncool thing to do. Bugger the legality. :K)

I agree ...

... but we must remember that almost everything Paul or John added to a song written by the other was just an arrangement (one chord or harmony or even one word) most of the times ... and nobody doubt that he (whoever in every case) should have got credits for that ... because we consider that he (whoever again) was composing/writing ... not arranging ... but the thing is that there were more people who did that too in many songs (George, Ringo, and others including Sir George too) ... and I don't care if their main roles were musicians, producers, arrangers, friends or wifes/girlfriends ... Linda got credits in 1971 ... :

The End · « **Reply #18 on:** February 23, 2006, 06:50:05 PM »

By agreement right from the VERY beginning, regardless of who wrote it, the songwriting credit was shared McCartney/Lennon at the beginning and later Lennon/McCartney (we wont get into THAT argument here!!). So... Paul wrote a new song and immediately added John as co-writer - just as John would have done if HE'D written it! End of story as far as I'm concerned.

John didn't deserve credit, but Paul added his name because that is what they agreed they would always do. Paul ALREADY had the chords and the lyrics and George Martin suggested it would sound better with a string quartet then scored it as such - that was his job!

raxo · « **Reply #19 on:** February 23, 2006, 07:07:12 PM »

So we're not talking about writing credits after all, only Sir George ... OK, then!

I've got some questions then:

1. Did Paul write "John Lennon" on his theme for The Family Way one year later? Why?
2. And in Catcall? or it was Woman? one with pseudonymous but the other?
2. What did Ringo do on What Goes On very few months later to share credits?

Does anybody know?

They all were doing their job ... and they all were paid! ...

News:

Author Topic: Yesterday co-written by George Martin? (Read 13252 times)

Bobber

Bobber