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[Loco Mo]

If the Beatles really manufactured the hoax, why??  I don't get it.  And how'd they get Paul to go along with it?  Imagine the following conversation:  Hey, Paul, we've got a great plan.  We're gonna pretend you died.  We'll drop a lot of hidden clues in our recordings and in the album covers.  What do you think?  Paul:  Oh, yeah.  Great idea, lads.

You'd think Paul would've asked:  Why me?  Why not Ringo or George or even you John?

I don't think most people would like the idea of other people pretending they died.  (I could be wrong.)

[Moogmodule]

I never thought they manufactured it. I think it was a case of fans  taking a few oddities stemming from their sense of humour (Paul standing backwards on Pepper, John murmuring cranberry sauce barely audibly  etc) then weaving a conspiracy with a whole lot of confirmation bias and hearing what they wanted to hear.

[Loco Mo]

Moogmodule:  I've wondered why John said "cranberry sauce."  It seems kind of senseless and contributes nothing to the song - or does it?

[zipp]

I've wondered why John said "cranberry sauce."  It seems kind of senseless and contributes nothing to the song - or does it?

Does it contribute to the song? Well, no because it's right at the end and the song is already over. The fact that it could be misheard shows it's not really important. Lennon was just ad-libbing.

Is it interesting? Well, yes of course. I can think of a few reasons for Lennon saying it.

First of all, it's American and Lennon was attracted to anything American, especially in the sixties. Most Brits at that time would not have eaten cranberry sauce. Even now personally I have never tasted the stuff in my life.

Secondly, cranberry and strawberry are both red fruit. At the time the song was announced nobody knew it was going to be about a home near Lennon's childhood house in Liverpool. The title Strawberry Fields Forever just conjured up images of endless fields filled with strawberries. I think this was part of Lennon's poetic intention. It could thus, poetically, have been called Cranberry Fields Forever.

Third, there's a shared scan between Straw-be-rry Fields and Cran-be-rry Sauce (a word of three syllables followed by a single word of one syllable). So it appealed phonetically to Lennon on the same level.

Lennon's mind was often capable of logical and seemingly illogical flights of fancy. This was one of his great qualities.

[Loco Mo]

zipp:  Thank you.  That was a very nicely written reply re: cranberry sauce. 

I must say it gives me much "food for thought."

[Fab4Fan]

First of all, cranberry sauce is a rather delectable treat (at least to my American tastebuds)! 

Second, after reading this thread last evening, I began to ponder the genesis of the “hoax” - and I do think it was intentional, but merely as a lark, and just to see if anyone would notice.

Recall that Paul was involved in an auto accident in 1966 (as reported in the news and further evidenced by his busted lip and broken teeth - as seen in the Paperback Writer and Rain videos). This was also prior to the appearance of any known “clues”.

My theory is that after the accident, the lads began to ponder the “what if” one of them actually did die - what then? What next? I postulate that’s when one of them jokingly came up with the idea that they could try to fill the missing Beatle’s role with a look-alike imposter and, from there, the idea for the “death clues” began - just for fun as an in-joke sort of thing.

The reason I believe it was planned and intentional is there are simply too many “clues” spread over too long a time period to merely be coincidental or due to confirmation bias.

Anyway, that’s my theory, and I’m sticking to it (at least for now...)

So, what do you think?...

[Moogmodule]

Moogmodule:  I've wondered why John said "cranberry sauce."  It seems kind of senseless and contributes nothing to the song - or does it?

I think basically what Zipp said Loco. John was prone to these type of things. Like him singing Sugarplum Fairy twice as the count in to A Day in the Life. This was cut from the song. Luckily. . God knows what the conspiracy theorists would have made of that.

[nimrod]

First of all, it's American and Lennon was attracted to anything American, especially in the sixties. Most Brits at that time would not have eaten cranberry sauce. Even now personally I have never tasted the stuff in my life.

Cant agree with this, we had Cranberry sauce when I was a kid in 60's England , I asked my wife and she had Cranberry sauce as well in 60's England

[zipp]

Cant agree with this, we had Cranberry sauce when I was a kid in 60's England , I asked my wife and she had Cranberry sauce as well in 60's England

This may be a regional thing or a class thing. The Beatles were working class northerners. And even if Mimi had middle class aspirations I doubt it would go so far.

Did you buy your sauce in tins? I don't remember seeing any in the shops at the time. This was before big supermarkets remember.

The typical Xmas dinner for most people was turkey, stuffing, sprouts, gravy and roast potatoes. Some people had a white sauce called Bread Sauce but we didn't have that, never mind cranberry sauce!

Is this now officially a Xmas thread? 

[Mr Mustard]

I'd like to know when the idea of Beatle "clues" first began. Not necessarily in connection with Paul's "death" (I thought that all commenced in 1969) but just "hidden messages" generally.

John sings "Here's another clue for you all" on "Glass Onion" - but that could just be him playing with words as usual. HG earlier in this thread mentioned playing records backwards (I always envied fans with the courage and ability to make that work - I never could) as far back as "Rain" - just to see what John was singing when played the right way - but WHEN did "clue hunting" rather than plain curiosity begin, WHY did anyone first think there were "clues" anyway...and to WHAT? It does seem that people were looking for messages (I acknowledge that HG and others at the time didn't refer to them as "clues") well before the "Paul Is Dead" nonsense.

Was anyone else subject to this sort of thing prior to The Beatles? Or were they, yet again, trailblazing? Can we thank/blame them for hidden "Easter Eggs" on modern DVDs for example?

[zipp]

I'd like to know when the idea of Beatle "clues" first began. Not necessarily in connection with Paul's "death" (I thought that all commenced in 1969) but just "hidden messages" generally ...  WHEN did "clue hunting" rather than plain curiosity begin, WHY did anyone first think there were "clues" anyway...and to WHAT? It does seem that people were looking for messages well before the "Paul Is Dead" nonsense.

Good question. We seem to have established in this thread that a lot of American college students were having fun looking for hidden messages in the white album in 1968. They were also working backwards (literally and figuratively) and looking for stuff on previous albums.

The first gold they would which have struck in my opinion could have been the Pepper run-out groove gibberish, except that I believe that didn't figure on the US album.

In which case I Am The Walrus would be another good starting point. Lennon wrote this song as a reaction to a letter he received telling him that teachers were beginning to study Beatle lyrics in school.Thus he decided to put a bit of everything in there (including Shakespeare for good measure) to see what teachers could make of it. And what happened? People started looking even further into their songs!

To put a stop to this nonsense John  had a bit of fun on the white album saying it wasn't he who was the walrus but Paul. And what happened? People started wondering what he was saying and why he'd specifically mentioned Paul.

Then there was also Revolution 9 in which it was possible to hear more or less anything (screeching tyres? a car accident? company freaks? turn me on deadman? - none of whch I've heard personally). And what happened?
It became uncool to say you hadn't heard what others were saying they had heard, so the interpretation game was now full steam ahead and no-one dared not to follow.

And Lennon, being Lennon, continued his word games, stretching grammar to the limits (Mary Jane), gobbledegooking (Dig A Pony) or doing both at the same time (Come Together).

The good news is that all of these songs didn't fit into the ridiculous Paul Is Dead theorising, but unfortunately some people thought they knew exactly what all these songs meant, whether they were right or wrong, whether Lennnon intended it or not.

No wonder John needed primal therapy to get away from these freaks!

[Loco Mo]

Couldn't modern sound technology determine the truth here?  It seems that all that would be needed is to isolate the phrase and turn up the volume.

Hasn't anyone tried this approach to solving what John actually said?  I've listened to this multiple times and I still hear "I buried Paul."  I don't hear an "s" sound like you should if he's saying "sauce" instead of "Paul."  Also, how does "cran" sound like "I?"

[Fab4Fan]

Couldn't modern sound technology determine the truth here?  It seems that all that would be needed is to isolate the phrase and turn up the volume.

Hasn't anyone tried this approach to solving what John actually said?  I've listened to this multiple times and I still hear "I buried Paul."  I don't hear an "s" sound like you should if he's saying "sauce" instead of "Paul."  Also, how does "cran" sound like "I?"

I’ve heard it clearly, and it is definitely “cranberry sauce”.  At the moment, I don’t remember the source but it’s something I have in my collection - and I think it’s a legit release/mix and not a boot. If I’m able to recall it, I will let you know.

[Hello Goodbye]

I've listened to this multiple times and I still hear "I buried Paul."

I’ve heard it clearly, and it is definitely “cranberry sauce”.

https://youtu.be/Hg8KOGv9-Mo


 

[Hello Goodbye]

Oh, and let's not forget Stephen Crane.

[Hello Goodbye]

Was anyone else subject to this sort of thing prior to The Beatles? Or were they, yet again, trailblazing? Can we thank/blame them for hidden "Easter Eggs" on modern DVDs for example?

Ah, the 60s!  Crappy record players were responsible for this song by The Kingsmen being termed lewd and it ultimately became the subject of an FBI investigation...


https://youtu.be/1RZJ4ESU52U



But it was nothing more than an almost word-for-word cover of Richard Berry's 1955 R&B song ...


https://youtu.be/z-2CKsaq5r8




It goes to show you that people will hear what they want to hear.  But The Kingsmen's drummer did yell "f***!" when he dropped his drumstick at 0:56   

[zipp]

Ah, the 60s!  Crappy record players were responsible for this song by The Kingsmen being termed lewd and it ultimately became the subject of an FBI investigation...

As it happens in this case I think it was more the singer's fault since you can't really understand what he's singing. He had, however, attenuating circumstances since he was singing into a microphone placed way too high in the studio.

What seems more important to me is why aren't the FBI investigating Fuh You?