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[alexis]

I'm being facetious here, but ...

it seems like the life just went out of John around late '66, into '67. Looking at photos, I get the impression that all of the joy in life that he had (and that I think really powered the Beatles through to the top) was just drained out. It's hard to find a picture of him smiling after those later years, and when he does ... it doesn't even look like the same person to me! Something's missing in his eyes ...

This is also the period where Paul seemed to have made his move to be the driving force behind the Beatle's music.

I know this sounds kind of nuts, but it's kind of something I've been thinking of for a while.

Anyone else have any similar thoughts?

[Leopard Skin Pill Box Man]

Well he mentioned he was severely depressed during the Pepper sessions, all the acid couldn't have made it much better. Not sure about after that though, maybe he felt that he lost control over a band that he wanted to be leader of?

[Bobber]

Yeah, I think there is a lot of truth in that. John was always the leader but he got worn out as early as Help! was recorded. It was his first scream for attention for his situation. Interesting to imagine that from there the downfall maybe already started. I think John and Paul were quite in balance during 65, 66 and early 67, but then John collapsed, Brian died and Paul was in control. Things were changing. Like Leopard Skin said, all the acid wasn't really helping either of course.

[Dark Phoenyx]

I think John became disenchanted with fame.  When he wrote Help! it was evident he was questioning himself and felt insecure.   Also their music was beginning to evolve, songs like In my life where John reflected about his past and people he had known before becoming a Beatle... Perhaps he lost interest in The Beatles and that's when Paul took over; and that was long before Yoko's arriving to Planet Beatle....
 :

[fendertele]

also john was a real rock and roller at heart and he probably started to notice the changes happening in the music and not being able to control it wouldnt have helped, and the lack of getting out there and playing live he perked up a bit during the roof top gig, also i get the feeling he didnt enjoy recording much like it was more of a chore where as paul thrived in learning new techniques and trying stuff out, so the whole band leader thing going to paul was a given as he was just more commited towards the end and it would have been wrong of john to hold him back just because he wanted to be leader but wasnt willing to put in the effort, the workers will only work as hard as the boss, if you know what a mean,do you think ?

[Dark Phoenyx]

If I'm not wrong in some Beatles documentary I've heard Paul get along with Sir George Martin because he loved to experiment in the studio with different recording techniques, different sounds, etc.  After their last tour Paul's ideas became Sgt. Pepper's & Magical Mistery Tour, so that gave Paul some power.

[tangerine]

Not nuts at all- I think it may very well be partly the case but then I think he got out of it. In the 'Help' era 66-7 you describe, I think he was a bit dissillusioned but still managed to keep going- and probably still had some good times amongst it- to me it seems he got in a bit of a rut but didn't remain desperately depressed- just lost the adrenaline of beatlemania, and realised it wasn't enough and he wanted more in some way.

I would be interested to know if you reckon John re-found his joy and stuff after late 66/67?

I'm really not sure- because after that came the death of Brian and break-up. But then I think he was generally happier in India etc. than he was in 66/67 but then after that, the whole 'Let it Be' era seemed to display him being pretty lost, confused and fed up. But after the Beatles had broken up, and after he had settled down with Yoko and had some therapy/started dealing with his emotions (especially the death of his Mother), I think he found himself again. Particularly in his later bread-making retired-from-music days, to me it seems he regained his humour and happiness. It seems like he had quite a roller-coaster of ups and downs through the years and I know what you mean about the eyes. But I guess we will never really know what he went through.

P.S. fendertele, I love your avatar!

[fendertele]

lol nick it tangerine

[Andy Smith]

Perhaps he lost interest in The Beatles and that's when Paul took over; and that was long before Yoko's arriving to Planet Beatle....
 :

Yes, he did say that Yoko made him open up in songs but he seemed to be doing it
way before Yoko! Songs like I'm A Loser, In My Life, Nowhere Man, & he wrote
Strawberry Fields a month or so before he met Yoko!! How expressive can one
get in those gems!  

[Kevin]

also john was a real rock and roller at heart and he probably started to notice the changes happening in the music and not being able to control it wouldnt have helped, and the lack of getting out there and playing live he perked up a bit during the roof top gig,

But Paul was constantly trying to get them back to playing live - it was John and George who were against it. I don't think ever particuly enjoyed playing live after 1966. (didn't he throw up before the Elton John thing?)Also it was John the "honest rock and roller" who inflicted Revolution 9 on the world, and all his other "avante-garde" studio stuff. Most of his work on Abbey Road and Let It Be is as produced as anyone elses - in fact for Abbey Road more so, bearing in mind Because and Sun King.