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An Apple Beatle

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in Jagger and Lennon wanted money not revolution:
« on: October 09, 2008, 02:57:40 PM »

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/afp/20081009/ten-jagger-and-lennon-wanted-money-not-r-a56114e.html

LONDON (AFP) - Pop culture icons John Lennon and Mick Jagger were clever capitalists who cashed in on the mood of the 1960s, not spokesmen for a generation seeking revolution, a British academic said Thursday.
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Cambridge University historian David Fowler said that so-called "Swinging London" was in fact beyond most normal people, "less a golden age for the nation's young than a celebration of wealth by its social elite."

"The 1960s are often viewed as the point at which youth culture in this country exploded, but in many ways they were the years in which the idea began to fall apart," said Fowler.

"Groups like The Beatles were basically capitalists interested in enriching themselves through the music industry. They did about as much to represent the interests of the nation's young people as The Spice Girls did in the 1990s."

Fowler notes that Rolling Stones frontman Jagger himself, when asked by an interviewer whether he was a spokesman for a generation, replied that he was just a musician.

The academic, who teaches modern British history in Cambridge, said more authentically revolutionary youth movements can be found in the period between World War I and World War II.

He singled out a little-known Cambridge student Rolf Gardiner, who was fascinated by the concept of Jugendkultur in Germany as a way that young people could express themselves more freely and challenge their elders.

Gardiner's cult championed physical labour and rural reconstruction, Fowler said, recounting also how he organised naked bathing sessions along the Cam river, as an expression of "back to nature" values.

"People forget that real youth movements are about a lot more than spending and consumerism -- they are a way of life," added the academic from Clare Hall college, Cambridge, author of "Youth Culture In Modern Britain, c.1920-c.1970."

"People like Rolf Gardiner were true cultural subversives, pop stars before pop even existed. In terms of the influence he had on giving Britain's young people a sense of identity ... he is just as important as Mick Jagger."

The reason the 1960s is perceived as the dawn of youth culture is because of a "break in chronology" due to World War II, which left a state of "collective amnesia," the academic said.

Groups like the Beatles and the Rolling Stones took advantage of this -- but their separation from real fans' lives was reflected in the way they installed themselves in grand country houses, while the London "scene" was equally beyond most people's purses.

"The world of Swinging London may be viewed as an emblem of youth culture now, but it was really for the Michael Caines of this world; an elite who could afford it," Fowler said.



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Jane

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Re: in Jagger and Lennon wanted money not revolution:
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2008, 06:21:40 PM »

Absolutely agree that Lennon was no revolutionary and I think that he didn`t try to be one. He was a person who was very much interested in everything that was happening in the world in those times and wanted to understand it, shape his opinion on certain issues, and express it. If asked the same question Mick was asked he would have answered that he was not a spokesman for the young generation, just a musician, I am sure. But that is my personal opinion (I would like to underline it).
I think that John was a clever intelligent man of great insight. He was clever enough to understand or, maybe, to feel, that being a revolutionary was reaching a blind alley. I could only admire his insight here and honesty in this issue because many politicians at that time started to speculate on some socialist ideas trying to appeal to the public and common people as they understood that the old capitalism needed an injection of new liberal ideas appealing to the working class. Their aim certainly being to come to power, in which they succeeded.
And it is very strange to me that the British and American press should impose his image as the one seeking revolution (for me it is very funny!) and then immediately throw him off the revolutionary pedestal, saying that he was a capitalist. Certainly he was, a capitalist concerned about a lot of political and social issues, interested in social life, trying to find answers, sympathizing and dreaming about a better world but not ruining it by plotting a revolution. "You may say I am a dreamer..." A DREAMER - that`s what he was!
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Kevin

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Re: in Jagger and Lennon wanted money not revolution:
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2008, 01:38:09 PM »

Quote from: 1393
Absolutely agree that Lennon was no revolutionary and I think that he didn`t try to be one. ......I think that John was a clever intelligent man of great insight. He was clever enough to understand or, maybe, to feel, that being a revolutionary was reaching a blind alley.

Ummm..."that is why I would like to compose songs for the revolution now." John 1971
"Say you want a revolution, we better get on right away.." Power to the people lyric.
"I'm a revolutionary muscian" 1972

Even a cursory glance through Lennon's utterances up to when STINYC crashed and burned (and made revoultion unprofitable) clearly shows his image of himself as a spokesman for revolution. I think he not only walked down that "blind alley" but he broke his nose on the wall at the end.

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cubanheel

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Re: in Jagger and Lennon wanted money not revolution:
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2008, 01:54:15 PM »

^^^^(rolling3)Kevin, that image of John made me laff!
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Jane

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Re: in Jagger and Lennon wanted money not revolution:
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2008, 07:51:52 PM »

Ok, Lennon wanted to stage a revolution in Great Britain. To overthrow the existing government and the monarchy into the bargain, and to install a socialist or communist state. Do you really believe in that? If you do then explain what you mean by a revolutionary.
In his song he sang: Count me out. And at that time "revolution" was fashionable and many politicians managed to make a career on it.
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