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Author Topic: George's input on Sgt Pepper  (Read 6619 times)

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Bulldog

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George's input on Sgt Pepper
« on: July 13, 2019, 08:23:16 PM »

Paul has said on TV that George did not contribute much to Sgt Pepper. Saying George was having a new swimming pool installed at the time.

George Martin said George intiially came up with a weak song for the album & was sent away to try again. He returned with one song, rather than the 3 he provided on Revolver.

Sgt Pepper was less of a guitar album than Revolver. George was getting interested in the Sitar, which was not going to play a big part on the album.

It was Paul's idea to use alter egos. Maybe George was not into that as much.

Sgt Pepper was when John & Paul got much more into studio experimentation. With the help of George Martin. Ringo & George having lesser roles,  although Ringo sang his song petfectly & George's song is a classic.

George may have felt his more standard songs would not have suited the album. His attempt at a Sgt Pepper esq song months later - 'Blue Jay Way' is not one of his best moments.

Be intetested to know more on George's contribution & committment to the album.

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Re: George's input on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2019, 09:36:23 PM »

In his own words...


https://youtu.be/jeU2J0W4sGA



“I felt we were just in the studio to make the next record, and Paul was going on about this idea of some fictitious band.  That side of it didn’t really interest me…It was becoming difficult for me, because I wasn’t really that into it.  Up to that time, we had recorded more like a band; we would learn the songs and then play them…’Sgt. Pepper’ was the one album where things were done slightly different.  A lot of the time it ended up with just Paul playing the piano and Ringo keeping the tempo, and we weren’t allowed to play as a band so much.  It became an assembly process – just little parts and then overdubbing – and so for me it became a bit tiring and a bit boring…I’d just got back from India, and my heart was still out there…The trips to India had really opened me up…I’d been let out of the confines of the group, and it was difficult for me to come back into the sessions…It was a job, like doing something I didn’t really want to do, and I was losing interest in being ‘fab’ at that point.”
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Bulldog

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Re: George's input on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2019, 11:12:37 PM »

In his own words...


https://youtu.be/jeU2J0W4sGA



“I felt we were just in the studio to make the next record, and Paul was going on about this idea of some fictitious band.  That side of it didn’t really interest me…It was becoming difficult for me, because I wasn’t really that into it.  Up to that time, we had recorded more like a band; we would learn the songs and then play them…’Sgt. Pepper’ was the one album where things were done slightly different.  A lot of the time it ended up with just Paul playing the piano and Ringo keeping the tempo, and we weren’t allowed to play as a band so much.  It became an assembly process – just little parts and then overdubbing – and so for me it became a bit tiring and a bit boring…I’d just got back from India, and my heart was still out there…The trips to India had really opened me up…I’d been let out of the confines of the group, and it was difficult for me to come back into the sessions…It was a job, like doing something I didn’t really want to do, and I was losing interest in being ‘fab’ at that point.”


Thanks. So that's why George focused on his swimming pool  :)
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nimrod

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Re: George's input on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2019, 11:55:55 PM »

I really get a bit frustrated watching  George interviewed about the Beatles, he always seems to have a downer about the whole subject I've never heard him say anything positive about the way John and Paul wrote all the hits that allowed George to have the money to live in a dirty great mansion and have houses in Los Angeles and Australia and a huge collection of exotic luxury cars plus a wonderful lifestyle.
He always just seems to moan and play the victim. Why did he never realised how lucky he was to be part of the best band in the world. (Mainly thanks to Paul for persuading John to let him join)
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Kevin

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Re: George's input on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2019, 12:11:56 AM »

Kev, I don't feel George was being down on The Beatles in that 1994 interview.  He was just saying how he felt in late 1966.

George had deep and fond feelings for his bandmates, for example...


https://youtu.be/3akarbEpWFE
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Hello Goodbye

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Re: George's input on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2019, 01:12:53 AM »

But he did contribute to John's angst here...


https://youtu.be/CcDYuTkK52o
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nimrod

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Re: George's input on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2019, 02:11:03 AM »

Kev, I don't feel George was being down on The Beatles in that 1994 interview.  He was just saying how he felt in late 1966.

George had deep and fond feelings for his bandmates, for example...


https://youtu.be/3akarbEpWFE
it wasn't particularly that interview but I've seen him on many other interviews stating how much he disliked being a beatle and was always denigrating being fab , or having a go at Paul in particular I'm sorry but as a wannabe musician who's never even been in a professional recording studio, ID donate my left testicle to spend a few days in Abbey road with George Martin and yet George just seems to dismiss it , he never seems to appreciate the position he was put into in life leaving behind his sqaulid working class background in grimy Liverpool.
I get the feeling he had absolutely no idea how lucky he was in life.
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Kevin

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Re: George's input on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2019, 03:45:42 AM »

it wasn't particularly that interview but I've seen him on many other interviews stating how much he disliked being a beatle and was always denigrating being fab , or having a go at Paul in particular I'm sorry but as a wannabe musician who's never even been in a professional recording studio, ID donate my left testicle to spend a few days in Abbey road with George Martin and yet George just seems to dismiss it , he never seems to appreciate the position he was put into in life leaving behind his sqaulid working class background in grimy Liverpool.
I get the feeling he had absolutely no idea how lucky he was in life.

I agree with you 100% on this Kevin.  I think the fame and so forth kind of caused George to be hazy about the entire situation.  Even when he was planning the Concert for Bangladesh he was unsure and went to John for counsel.  John told him to use his celebrity and fame to get things done.  It was like John hit George over the head with that answer.  Strange.

On another note, I don't believe he and Paul got along real well.  As history has shown, George hung out and felt much more comfortable with John and certainly Ringo.  I feel John was more accommodating and engaging when they were together compared to Paul.  Paul was probably a little more particular and demanding in the musical arena.  Maybe even intimidating.  Even during the Anthology sessions when they were together doing 'Free As A Bird' and 'Real Love', George seemed to have his guard up and appeared a tad distant.  That's the feeling I got anyways. 

Moogmodule

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Re: George's input on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2019, 07:11:38 AM »

Yes he did come over as very negative often in later interviews. He really seems to have found a lot of the Beatle experience unpleasant. Early on it was the touring treadmill with the screaming fans which genuinely seemed to have stressed him extremely, then the dynamic with Paul and John in later years. But as Nim says he did have a privileged life after that which you’d think he would have acknowledged and shown some gratitude. He really did have a grumpy streak.

As for Sgt Pepper he made no secret of the fact he would rather have been in India. It seems post Revolver it took him till 1968 to decide he really wanted to be a rock musician and guitarist.
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Loco Mo

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Re: George's input on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2019, 04:17:36 PM »

I think this is another reason the Beatles broke up.  Both George and John weren't happy being Beatles anymore (about midway through their time together).  Yoko really had nothing to do with it - I think she was a convenient scapegoat for John (let the fans hate her and not him).

But George also felt like he was considered to be a minor Beatle anyway.  I'd have felt the same.

And I don't think he was really into Paul's music.

Well, at least the Beatles were together for a little while, enough to create an amazing and wonderful legacy of unparalleled music for us to listen to and enjoy for many years to come.
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Bulldog

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Re: George's input on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2019, 04:30:34 AM »

John & Paul wanted to experiment more on Sgt Pepper. They would have also known that changing direction would have caught George flat footed.

After 3 songs on Revolver from George, John & Paul were able to dominate Sgt Pepper & keep George down to one track.  They may have had a giggle when hearing 'Only a Northern Song'.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2019, 04:32:46 AM by Bulldog »
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Mr Mustard

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Re: George's input on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2019, 05:29:39 PM »

Of the four, George was by far the least impressed by fame. It should come as no revelation to anyone reading this that he outgrew being a fab far quicker than the other three. Even into their forties, John and Paul still worshipped Chuck Berry and Little Richard just as much as they had done in their teens, whilst George went on record as saying he'd never REALLY been bowled over by anyone until he met Ravi Shankar. It's like being in The Beatles was just a stepping stone for George onto highier and mightier things... remember that famous quote about joining The Beatles being the best professional move he ever made, but leaving them being the next best? Despite being the youngest, I also feel he was the deepest and the one who grew fastest and furthest, if that makes sense. I don't hold any of this against him in the slightest.

Of the many things I love about George, his avoidance of becoming starstruck was one of them. He didn't court fame ("I said I wanted to be successful, I never said I wanted to be famous"). Sure, he fully embraced the perks that stardom and global adulation sent his way but, despite his love of fast cars and palatial houses, he was the first to grasp the transient, ephemeral nature of these comforting things. They were toys, pleasant side effects. He wasn't so much impressed at being a star as semi-comfortable with it. Certainly he WAS proud of being a Beatle and would occasionally display it... it was he who suggested and encouraged the Cirque du Soleil "LOVE" concept celebrating their catalogue, for example.

For all John's reputation for uncompromising honesty, I've always felt George was the "least false" Beatle, if that makes sense. He was the least comfortable at putting on a showbusiness mask and "playing the game" whereas Ringo lives and breathes "showbiz" and Paul, much as I love him, is a positive "ham" at times. They feed off an audience; George just wasn't wired up the same way - he didn't mind doing the odd gig but the thought of a tour horrified him. Far from making him ungrateful or aloof I think it highlighted his mystique and, at the same time, his honesty. And yes, he could undoubtedly be saturnine and even downright gloomy (occasionally) but that droll, sardonic humour helped to balance out Ringo's goofy fun, John's near-the-knuckle cheekiness and Paul's undimmable, optimistic zest.

As for Harrison's input on Pepper: hiding behind an alter ego was the furthest thing from truth-seeking George's mindset at that time ("Nelson Wilbury" was still more than twenty years away) and one profound track would mean more to him than three catchy standard ones. It's not as if he didn't try: even post-Pepper, he alone from the group visited Haight-Ashbury but saw through the hippy hype. He was simply distracted by other, more meaningful (to him) things.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2019, 05:31:42 PM by Mr Mustard »
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Loco Mo

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Re: George's input on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2020, 10:59:05 PM »

I think most commentators agree that Sgt. Pepper was Paul's brainchild and therefore his album primarily.  We can't know George's input unless we could hear about his take on the album's individual songs.  How did he contribute to or shape them?  He only had one featured song, "Within you, without you."  I think we'd have to examine his role on each song to get an idea of his level of involvement with it overall.  I know he had thoughts about the album but I never heard that he dismissed or downplayed it in any way.
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Loco Mo

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Re: George's input on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2020, 11:06:07 PM »

I think I will add this.  I never cared for Within You Without You.  Nope, not a song I ever liked or cared to hear.  It's a good song though.  I mean I am able to acknowledge that much about it.
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Moogmodule

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Re: George's input on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2020, 11:12:02 PM »

Within you without you I find improves with time. You get to appreciate the interplay of the Indian and western instruments.  Never was that into it but I don’t skip it now.

As for how George shaped the songs, he still did play some leads and things on the album, even if Paul usurped him on a few. So it might be overstated to say he had little involvement. I think his head was elsewhere though And it’s not an album you hear him talk about fondly too often. Mind you George seemed rarely to talk of anything fondly outside Ravi Shankar, Bob Dylan and meditation.

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Normandie

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Re: George's input on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2020, 01:36:02 AM »

I never cared for Within You Without You.  Nope, not a song I ever liked or cared to hear.  It's a good song though.  I mean I am able to acknowledge that much about it.

I feel that way about several Beatles songs. Like you, Loco, I can acknowledge that they are great, but some of them -- Within You Without You being one of them -- just don't move me.
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nimrod

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Re: George's input on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2020, 01:56:39 AM »

Within you without you I find improves with time. You get to appreciate the interplay of the Indian and western instruments.  Never was that into it but I don’t skip it now.

As for how George shaped the songs, he still did play some leads and things on the album, even if Paul usurped him on a few. So it might be overstated to say he had little involvement. I think his head was elsewhere though And it’s not an album you hear him talk about fondly too often. Mind you George seemed rarely to talk of anything fondly outside Ravi Shankar, Bob Dylan and meditation.
I always think the lyrics are the best that George ever wrote on this song.
So very deep.
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Kevin

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Re: George's input on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2020, 02:41:59 AM »

Within You, Without You... when I was a teenager and young 20-something, I didn’t care much for it. But, I have thoroughly enjoyed listening to the song for the past 30+ years...
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Loco Mo

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Re: George's input on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2020, 01:18:25 PM »

Okay, after reading the latest comments about Within You Without You, I decided to listen to the song again.  I listened to the 2009 remaster and the 2017 remix.  I'm not sure yet but I feel like the remix really opened up the sound more and you really notice the Indian instruments and the significant accompaniment they provided to George's vocal.  Also, on the remaster, I heard George's whispered count of 1 2 3 4 but I didn't seem to notice it on the remix.  Did I miss it?  I could have been paying too much attention to the instrumentation to hear it.

I have to concur with nimrod.  The lyrics are very deep.  It's amazing how young George Harrison (24 years old at the time) wrote such profound lyrics.  The lyrics alone are worth the price of admission!!

Also, I need to listen to the 1st version (pre-remaster) to see how that compares with the other 2 versions.  Unfortunately, I don't think I have the LP anymore due to a major culling I conducted a few years back of my vinyl record collection.
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Hello Goodbye

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Re: George's input on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2020, 10:04:26 PM »

Imagine sitting down with your buddies, whipping out your guitar, sitar tabla and esrraj, and doing this...


<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOD5oRMf7GQ" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOD5oRMf7GQ</a>



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