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[Hello Goodbye]

I love that movie!

Me too, Teach!   

[Jane]

We and Gorillas have the same ancestors? Impossible! Only if we have evolved from different predecessors...But if it`s a part of the general (divine) scheme, then ok...
Thank you very much for your kind conversation, Hello Goodbye, and all the knowledge that you shared! 

[Hello Goodbye]

We and Gorillas have the same ancestors? Impossible! Only if we have evolved from different predecessors...

Jane, the chart I posted shows that we're more closely related to chimpanzees (genus Pan) than to gorillas, as we branched off from the common tribe Hominini.

But if it`s a part of the general (divine) scheme, then ok...

[Jane]

I didn`t know what Pan meant! lol...

[emmi_luvs_beatles]

I think when christianity is under pressure and it is under pressure from the rise of Islam , it kind of does'nt think in a logical way and it's followers fall back into believing the ridiculous , it's the way the church as always controlled it's dumb flock , put fear in there minds ?
Islam on the other hand embraces scientific achivement .
Christians should stop reacting like this , evolution is a well thought out theory with evidence to back it up .
The logical thing to do is have an open mind .
And read only what Jesus is said to have said , and bin the rest of the Bible only the gospels are worth reading ?

I think when christianity is under pressure and it is under pressure from the rise of Islam , it kind of does'nt think in a logical way and it's followers fall back into believing the ridiculous , it's the way the church as always controlled it's dumb flock , put fear in there minds ?
Islam on the other hand embraces scientific achivement .
Christians should stop reacting like this , evolution is a well thought out theory with evidence to back it up .
The logical thing to do is have an open mind .
And read only what Jesus is said to have said , and bin the rest of the Bible only the gospels are worth reading ?

*sorry for thread bumping*
 

I agree with DaveRam. (even though he isn't here) But to me, the Christain religion takes it's beliefs and drills it into people's heads to the point of brainwashing. And if you don't accept their views they turn against you. I have been in situations like this before. The people where I live are so Christian they make their kids pray outside a public school. And my family is Christian based, but I am not. I believe in the "Big Bang" completely, I believe in Gay Marrige, and believe that people should be able to get an abortion if they feel so. I am not a complete athiest though. I believe there is a higher being but the odds that the Bible is fact are very slim.

And again, sorry for thread bumping.

[Bobber]

Why don't you come living in the Netherlands?

[Kevin]

*sorry for thread bumping*
 

I agree with DaveRam. (even though he isn't here) But to me, the Christain religion takes it's beliefs and drills it into people's heads to the point of brainwashing. And if you don't accept their views they turn against you. I have been in situations like this before. The people where I live are so Christian they make their kids pray outside a public school. And my family is Christian based, but I am not. I believe in the "Big Bang" completely, I believe in Gay Marrige, and believe that people should be able to get an abortion if they feel so. I am not a complete athiest though. I believe there is a higher being but the odds that the Bible is fact are very slim.

And again, sorry for thread bumping.

I can't help myself.
I'm a card carrying, uniform wearing athiest and no christian's ever turned against me. And I'm not sure about the brainwashing thing either.
To be honest I find the agnostic thing - I believe in something but I don't know what - more mystifying than any religious beliefs. However flawed I see their arguement, or logic, at least christians can base their convictions on the bible. But I can't see how your belief in a "higher being" can be based on anything other than wishful thinking. If you believe in this, what do you base it on? What did it do, and what does it continue to do? Do you have any evidence for its existance, its actions, or any explanation as to why the universe needs one in the first place? If, as you say, the odds of the bible being fact are slim then.......
People in glass houses and all that.
If you "believe completely" in the big bang, then I have to assume that you've looked into it's logic (otherwise, in just believing what someone's told you, are you any better than the "brainwashed" christians? ) So if you have, then you accept that the origins of our universe can be found in observable, measurable evidence. How can you then have this belief in a "higher being" , for which none of the previous exists. You can't have it both ways.

[Jane]

Guys, I am not quite sure, is abortion legal where you live? Emmi, is it?

[Mairi]

I identify as a Christian, and last time I checked I've never tried to ram my views down anyone else's throats. I support gay marriage (in fact I support gay men more than I should... ahem), and although I wouldn't have an abortion, I do think they should be legal. So yeah. Not so much into the whole "blanket statement" thing.

[I_Will]

It amuses me that every forum I've even been to (no matter the subject) ALWAYS has at least one subject such as this one.

Contributing to the thread, I am a very outspoken atheist (raised Methodist, but never believed any of it even when I was young) and I just cannot comprehend how anyone could think that there's a "magic man/entity" in the sky who made everything.

By the way, any fellow atheists (or agnostics, theists, deists, etc interested in discussing this further). You should check out http://forum.richarddawkins.net/. Great debates and topics!

[emmi_luvs_beatles]

Contributing to the thread, I am a very outspoken atheist (raised Methodist, but never believed any of it even when I was young)

*shivers* I'm sorry.


Anyways, Kevin, you are right. And the whole thing is I'm not allowed (by my own parents) to call myself an athiest. I don't know why, they just get really mad when I say that. But I do believe in the big bang and I am completely outspoken about that. I am actually so outspoken about it my family threatens to send me to a catholic school. But I think you are totally right.

[sgt. peppie]

Boy am I uncomfortable
I'm a muslim, and after everything I've learned, it makes a lot of sense. I never really questioned that often about the beliefs. If you put aside the whole terrorism thing, you get a really good depth of history. With Islam, they really never edited the Quran over the years, like the Christians and Jews did. (btw, terrorists aren't real muslims, killing people and raping people is the worst thing you can ever do)

Though I did question about how far back time goes. But then again, what if God created time?

[Kevin]

*shivers* I'm sorry.


Anyways, Kevin, you are right. And the whole thing is I'm not allowed (by my own parents) to call myself an athiest. I don't know why, they just get really mad when I say that. But I do believe in the big bang and I am completely outspoken about that. I am actually so outspoken about it my family threatens to send me to a catholic school. But I think you are totally right.

You do? Oh. Where's the fun in that then?   
I want to reiterate that despite being an athiest I think religion is mostly a good, positive thing. My girlfriend prays to an elephant and a blue dude for God's sake. I'm quite sure she doesn't really think they're there (this is what she tells me) but she likes the comfort and sense of well being it brings her and her family. (we're not mentioning the truckloads of guilt here.) So fair enough. gathering with your neighbours, having a prayer and maybe a good sing along, sounds like a good thing to me, which I'd happliy do.

[Kevin]

Interesting documentary on TV other night about dogs (stay with me on this.)

For the last 50 years the Russians have been conducting an experiment with foxes. Despite taking them from fur farms and raising them in cages most of the foxes remain extremely wild and aggressive towards humans. But every now and then one is born that is friendly and more dog-like towards humans. These friendly foxes are removed and bred with each other. Some of their young (but never all) are also friendly, and so the breeding continues with two populations (agressive v friendly.)

But the amazing thing is that the friendly foxes, despite being selected by behaviour and not appearance, are developing the dog like features that humans find endearing - bushy, wagging tails;floppy ears; big eyes and softer features. How do the foxes' genes know to do this? There has been no selection pressure on looks. It's as if the genes are manipulating us to care for the hosts (the foxes) that will ensure their (the genes) survival.

Some believe that the history of all living things in the world is really no more than genes struggling with each other for dominance and survival, and we and all other living things are merely vehicles with which they  employ their stategies.
Blows my mind.

Richard Attenborough recently did a show in "Life" that included coral - that pretty stuff on reefs. It is actually a family of  hyper-aggressive species that are constantly at war with each other in an effort to achieve dominance, one neighbour eating the other alive, to ensure that they can reproduce and survive.

Despite the almost unfathomably huge difference between coral and humans it is a story we are all too familiar with.

[Jane]

Something to think about, Kevin.

[Kevin]

A new book has just come out called Them And Us, a new theory that modern humans evolved in the middle east from the pressures of near extinction by smart, predatory, aggressive neandertals (more clever-apes than dumb humans.) My avatar is a reconstructed "new" neandertal.
The guy who wrote it is riding high on a wave of publicity. And wouldn't you believe it, just as his book comes out a new find has been announced of pigment (paint) found in shells in a neandertal site in Gibralta. Prior to this it was thought body ardornment was unique to our species. If neandertals were painting thenmselves then it's unlikely they were hairy and the Them And Us book goes down the can.
So either:
1. The neandertal predator theory is wrong
2. The Gibralta findings have been misread or
3. Our ancestors were hunted nearly to extinction by clever, transvestite gorilla's.

1 is most likely, but 3 would make one hell of a movie.

[An Apple Beatle]

haha, quality. I did hear about these make-up wearing ape/neanderthols recently, aswell as a new tourist destination pyramid in Egypt. Information.....dis-information. lol

[Jane]

Neandertal is a fake. I`ve heard from one interview with the participation of scientists that Neandertal was removed from the museum (don`t remember which one used to have the exhibit). And can you guess why? Because it was discovered that Neandertal is A DEFORMED HUMAN BEING! So there has never been any Neandertal at all. It was all a mistake.

[I_Will]

For some reason every culture of the world believed in the concept of a Higher Being, since it explains everything science is not able to. You got nothing from nothing, so there must have been Someone or Something before everything. So I understand that mind is before matter. It doesn't matter what logic you use, you'll always fall in a big hole if you want to explain the existence without God.

And that right there, is why the human brain creates a 'god' in the first place. Same reason we hear monsters in the dark as young children, our minds look to fill gaps which we cannot we logic and information. Just because there is a gap which we currently cannot fill does not mean that 'goddit', it just means that as of now we do not have the technology/ability to figure out the answers to these gaps.

[emmi_luvs_beatles]

Neandertal is a fake. I`ve heard from one interview with the participation of scientists that Neandertal was removed from the museum (don`t remember which one used to have the exhibit). And can you guess why? Because it was discovered that Neandertal is A DEFORMED HUMAN BEING! So there has never been any Neandertal at all. It was all a mistake.

So are you saying you don't believe in Evolution, Jane? Because I strongly believe in it. The whole Adam and Eve theory doesn't make sense to me. Because if you bring science into it, a woman can not come from a man's rib. For one, you can't get DNA from a rib very easily, if not at all. And you wouldn't be able to get a woman from a man's DNA, you just can't do it. And where did the man come from at all? Yes, you could say God put him there, but how? And if we haven't had anything of that sort happen by now, it's very unlikely it did happen. It just makes more sense that we came from another animal. Since for one we are animals ourselves, and you see animals and organisms evolving all the time, you don't see God changing our world very often, do you? And not to rain on anyone's belifs parade but....

They Might Be Giants - Science is Real