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[DrClaw]

I have been trying to find out the story behind how the lyrics of the song "Girl" were, no doubt intentionally, miswritten in the lyrics sheet provided in the Red Album.  The actually lyrics are:
"Was she told when she was young that pain would lead to pleasure?
Did she understand it when they said
That a man must break his back to earn his day of leisure?"

On the Red Album, the word "Pain" is substituted for "Fame" and pleasure and leisure are swapped.

I know in 1980 Lennon mentioned that the song was written during an anti-Christian period and that line was indicative of that, but that wouldn't account for attempts that line back when the Red Album was released.

I spoke with Bruce Spizer about this, but he wasn't aware of this.

Any information about this would be appreciated.  I am amazed that I have never seen anyone comment on this.

[zipp]

On my French copy pleasure and leisure aren't swapped but as you say there is fame for pain.
I should guess at a printing error.

Another lyric change, this time by omission and certainly on purpose, is on George's All Things Must Pass 2000. In Awaiting On You All he still sings that 'the Pope owns 50% of General Motors,the stock exchange is the only thing he's qualified to quote us' (or words to that effect) but it's nowhere to be seen in the little booklet!  

[DrClaw]

They simply do not make printing errors such as replacing the word "fame" for "pain".  Lyrics are NOT transcribed by a person sitting and listening the songs, who then types them out.  This was definitely intentional on someone's part.  What is more conspicuous about this error is that Lennon claimed this particular line was meant to be "anti-Christian."  The change in that word would obviate that.

[zipp]

They simply do not make printing errors such as replacing the word "fame" for "pain".  Lyrics are NOT transcribed by a person sitting and listening the songs, who then types them out.  This was definitely intentional on someone's part.  What is more conspicuous about this error is that Lennon claimed this particular line was meant to be "anti-Christian."  The change in that word would obviate that.

I never said someone was listening to the song.I said a printing error in that someone maybe READ a handwritten 'pain' and saw 'fame'.
The anti-christian thing, as you said yourself, doesn't hold water since this dated from well before Lennon's interview.
I think you're making a big issue out of what was very probably a mistake.Unless of course you can come up with some proof to the contrary.

[alexis]

"Censored Lyrics in Girl" -

Don't forget the backing vocals "Toot, toot, toot, toot", as it was written.

Which actually, knowing how they turned up (snow in July!), would have been ironic too!

[alexis]

I have been trying to find out the story behind how the lyrics of the song "Girl" were, no doubt intentionally, miswritten in the lyrics sheet provided in the Red Album.  The actually lyrics are:
"Was she told when she was young that pain would lead to pleasure?
Did she understand it when they said
That a man must break his back to earn his day of leisure?"

On the Red Album, the word "Pain" is substituted for "Fame" and pleasure and leisure are swapped.

I know in 1980 Lennon mentioned that the song was written during an anti-Christian period and that line was indicative of that, but that wouldn't account for attempts that line back when the Red Album was released.

I spoke with Bruce Spizer about this, but he wasn't aware of this.

Any information about this would be appreciated.  I am amazed that I have never seen anyone comment on this.

I am moderately embarrassed to say that I always thought the line referred to a bit of kinkiness a la Madame Dominatrix or something similar. Nothing quite like the scene with the leather suit in Pulp Fiction though.

Even now, I don't quite see it as an anti-Christian reference, unless working fingers to the bone to make a living is considered a particularly Christian thing.

[zipp]

I'm not sure about the kinkiness, but ,come to think of it, this song is a bit of a precursor to Norwegian Wood.
It could well be a way of talking about one of Lennon's extra-marital affairs without being too precise.

[DrClaw]

I know the anti-christian explanation for that line in the lyric came later, but again, that kind of copying of one word and mis-writing as something else simply does not happen anywhere else and the amount of fact checking that takes place before a record - especially a Beatles record - is immense.  Nowhere else do you see this error and it is curious that it happened to a line that Lennon singled out.  Lennon, himself, may have been behind it.  The point is, it is actually a much bigger stretch of the imagination to think it was accidental considering the process.  If anyone has the original sheet music, I would be curious to see how it reads there.

"Censored Lyrics in Girl" -

Don't forget the backing vocals "Toot, toot, toot, toot", as it was written.

Which actually, knowing how they turned up (snow in July!), would have been ironic too!

I wrote something about this in here about two months ago. Paul wrote in his autobiography that the backing vocals were "tit tit tit" because John & Paul were always wanting to "slip something dirty" into their song lyrics just to see if they could get away it (i.e., "dirty" by tame 1965 standards, that is) Apparently it worked.

[zipp]

I know the anti-christian explanation for that line in the lyric came later, but again, that kind of copying of one word and mis-writing as something else simply does not happen anywhere else and the amount of fact checking that takes place before a record - especially a Beatles record - is immense.

On the latest DVD release of Help! they attribute the 1812 Overture to Beethoven whereas it should be to Tchaikovsky.
So I don't think mistakes are all that impossible.

On the latest DVD release of Help! they attribute the 1812 Overture to Beethoven whereas it should be to Tchaikovsky.
So I don't think mistakes are all that impossible.

unless they did it on purpose  lol (remember this is the Beatles we're talking about... )

[DrClaw]

On the latest DVD release of Help! they attribute the 1812 Overture to Beethoven whereas it should be to Tchaikovsky.
So I don't think mistakes are all that impossible.

Was that mistake made in print or was a comment made by someone?  There is a difference.  Either way, it is quite different to make a mistake in a reference than to make one with lyrics especially when that line was singled out by Lennon.  I am not saying that a mistake is completely impossible, just very highly improbable and was I curious whether anyone had any information about how this came about.  Even if it were a mistake (which, again, I seriously doubt) at some point someone in the Beatles circle would have caught this.  The whole thing is very strange.

Was that mistake made in print or was a comment made by someone?  There is a difference.  Either way, it is quite different to make a mistake in a reference than to make one with lyrics especially when that line was singled out by Lennon.  I am not saying that a mistake is completely impossible, just very highly improbable and was I curious whether anyone had any information about how this came about.  Even if it were a mistake (which, again, I seriously doubt) at some point someone in the Beatles circle would have caught this.  The whole thing is very strange.

At this point, I dont think Tchaikovsky much cares if Ludvig Van gets the credit for "1812". He's dead

[DrClaw]

The Beatles more melodious and introspective "Girl" was a derogatory commentary about Christianity and the Catholic church. John Lennon said that the verse that includes "pain will lead to pleasure" was about "the Catholic/Christian concept - be tortured and then it'll be alright. I was trying to say something about Christianity, which I was opposed to at the time."

[zipp]

Was that mistake made in print or was a comment made by someone?  

In print.

[Bobber]

The Beatles more melodious and introspective "Girl" was a derogatory commentary about Christianity and the Catholic church. John Lennon said that the verse that includes "pain will lead to pleasure" was about "the Catholic/Christian concept - be tortured and then it'll be alright. I was trying to say something about Christianity, which I was opposed to at the time."

I bet that's coming from Wiki. I don't believe John's comment at all. He might have had the experience himself perhaps.
I don't believe it's a misprint or error to type fame for pain. It does look like it's censored to me. Never knew that by the way.

[Chris]

It's just a typo. Happens all the time. I don't think the person responsible for getting the template together was doing research into Lennon interviews! People make mistakes.

[Bobber]

Fame and pain have just one letter in common.

[JimmyMcCullochFan]

I find it funny that Paul and George sang "tit tit tit tit tit" in the background and nobody noticed  

[BlueMeanie]

As Bobber says, only one letter in common between Pain and Fame, together with the swapping around of pleasure, and leisure makes it very unlikely to be a typo.

Typogarphcal errors in copy usualy appear like this. Plain old spelling mistakes (there's two in the last sentence). Letters transposed are also common, because the human eye will read the word anyway. These are very deliberate looking errors of grammar, not spelling mistakes (or typo's). Indeed just the kind of thing that is easier to pick up at proof stage. Remember this thing was probably read by at least 4 different people.