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Author Topic: Blowing Beatle myths.  (Read 5742 times)

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Kevin

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Blowing Beatle myths.
« on: November 11, 2009, 03:11:25 PM »

My favourite thing.
I grew up believing that The Beatles were quite special in releasing albums that didn't include hit singles. (in fact they're the exception, not the rule 5/12 )
Anyways, I read things like (I paraphrase) "this was against the trends of the day."
But then I was reading about The Stones first album, which also avoided singles it said, because British albums traditionally didn't include singles.
I've done a quick search (admittedly very quick) of two big charting pre-Beatle pop acts - Lonnie Donegan and Adam Faith. Both released debut albums ("Lonnie" 1957 and "Adam" 1960) devoid of singles, despite the fact that both were up to their knees in hit singles at the time.
So this was nothing new or innovative by The Beatles. As with most firsts attributed to them they were actually part of a general trend, their fame granting their achievements undue weight in the history of rock.
There is such a "danger" in reading only Beatle books and thinking that gives you real insight into their place in the world (and I speak from experience, not hopefully as some snobby tut-tutter.)
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 03:44:51 PM by Kevin »
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Mairi

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Re: Blowing Beatle myths.
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2009, 04:36:35 PM »

Is this the case with American artists too? I don't claim to be an expert, but from what I know of Motown, Spector, and artists like, say, Dusty Springfield and the Beach Boys, the main indea was to release an album with your hit singles on it as well as some filler. Perhaps this is seen as an innovative thing in the Beatles' case because they brought a British custom to American mainstream.
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Kevin

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Re: Blowing Beatle myths.
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2009, 04:44:02 PM »

Is this the case with American artists too? I don't claim to be an expert, but from what I know of Motown, Spector, and artists like, say, Dusty Springfield and the Beach Boys, the main indea was to release an album with your hit singles on it as well as some filler. Perhaps this is seen as an innovative thing in the Beatles' case because they brought a British custom to American mainstream.

Don't know about the american market. Any american's care to check?
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Joost

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Re: Blowing Beatle myths.
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2009, 09:20:09 PM »

Don't know about the american market.

The majority of the singles that Elvis Presley released throughout his carreer were non-album singles. When he released his first LP in 1956 he'd already released 18 singles - none of them were on the album.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 09:22:42 PM by Joost »
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Joost

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Re: Blowing Beatle myths.
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2009, 09:27:53 PM »

The Beach Boys on the other hand were forced by their record company to put their hit singles on their LPs, even if they didn't fit in. 'Sloop John B' is completely out of place on 'Pet Sounds' (lyrically it sticks out like a sore thumb), just like 'Good Vibrations' doesn't belong on the drugged-out, lo-fi 'Smiley Smile' LP.
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stevie

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Re: Blowing Beatle myths.
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2009, 12:17:15 AM »

I've always found it interesting that people sometime overlook the fact that AHDN and Help had two singles on each. I know they were technically film soundtracks but...
Don't get me wrong, the Beatles always gave great value for money. Their 'lesser known' album songs are some of my faves.
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Kevin

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Re: Blowing Beatle myths.
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2009, 10:28:49 AM »

This from Wiki:
"Prior to the Beatles' influence, record albums were of secondary consideration to singles ("45s") in mass marketing. Albums contained largely "filler" material (unexceptional songs) along with one or two hits. The Beatles rarely incorporated singles as part of their albums, thus defining the album as more important."

We've already talked about Lonnie Donegan and Adam Faith. I looked at the other two pre-Beatle UK monster pop acts.
Cliff Richard: His first album had one single, Move It (already over a year old) and none of his other contempory top twenty hits. His two follow up albums  had no singles, despite a run of six consecutive top 3 singles, including 3 number 1's.
Likewise The Shadows first two albums were devoid of singles, despite them having a run of nine top ten singles, including four number ones.
I accept that The Beatles, with their enormous popularity and exceptional songwriting (and production) made albums far more economically viable (but that's only a guess) and therefore elevated their popularity, but this was not due to any innovation on their part. As Mairi said this may have appeared innovative to the US market, hearing a uk act for the first time, but it was just how albums were made here.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2009, 10:38:58 AM by Kevin »
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Kevin

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Re: Blowing Beatle myths.
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2009, 10:34:06 AM »

bugger
« Last Edit: November 13, 2009, 10:37:36 AM by Kevin »
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Bobber

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Re: Blowing Beatle myths.
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2009, 11:26:39 AM »

bugger

Why? The myth is blown, isn't it?

I think this is interesting:  The Beatles rarely incorporated singles as part of their albums, thus defining the album as more important.

It states that albums became more important, but maybe that was not the result of not including singles. I think that singles were really important and don't forget the EP.
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Kevin

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Re: Blowing Beatle myths.
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2009, 11:38:00 AM »

Why? The myth is blown, isn't it?

I think this is interesting:  The Beatles rarely incorporated singles as part of their albums, thus defining the album as more important.

Nothing to do with my post. I pushed quote instead of modify, and because theirs no bloody delete button anymore (Justin you freak!).....
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Nelson_Wilbury

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Re: Blowing Beatle myths.
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2009, 07:01:21 PM »

Maybe the myth was that they don't cut a single from a previous LP. (Example: All my loving don't was a single extracted from With the beatles) This was done on the EPs
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tkitna

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Re: Blowing Beatle myths.
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2009, 01:42:11 AM »

'Sloop John B' is completely out of place on 'Pet Sounds' (lyrically it sticks out like a sore thumb),

I agree with this 100%. It just doesnt belong there.

Kevin

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Re: Blowing Beatle myths.
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2009, 11:02:06 AM »

Maybe the myth was that they don't cut a single from a previous LP. (Example: All my loving don't was a single extracted from With the beatles) This was done on the EPs

But neither did any of the other pre-Beatle bands we mentioned.albums and singleswere very distinct entities long before With The Beatles.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2009, 11:49:13 AM by Kevin »
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BlueMeanie

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Re: Blowing Beatle myths.
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2009, 11:32:25 AM »

The one where people think The Beatles invented heavy metal.

Routinely rolled out. Contrary to what some people still insist (I read it again just the other day), they did not invent HM with the recording of Helter Skelter.

This from The Pretty things - Old Man Going - recorded in 1967. Starts at 3:16.

THE PRETTY THINGS "S. F. SORROW""OLD MAN GOING""BRACELETS OF FINGERS" 1968
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Kevin

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Re: Blowing Beatle myths.
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2009, 12:00:06 PM »

Wow - I was expecting some kind of proto song, but that IS heavy metal, from the riffing chords to the vocal.
I really think with most genres it's near impossible to say "it began here." I've heard people cite both The Kingsmens Louie Louie and The Kinks YOu Really Got Me. And god knows how many garage bands out there that we just don't know about.
This though is the most clearly heavily-metally of the ancestral line I've heard.
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Mairi

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Re: Blowing Beatle myths.
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2009, 12:59:18 PM »

Why anyone would credit the Beatles with metal is beyond me, 'cause metal sucks (for the most part).
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Nelson_Wilbury

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Re: Blowing Beatle myths.
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2009, 03:31:38 PM »

Why anyone would credit the Beatles with metal is beyond me, 'cause metal sucks (for the most part).

 ha2ha
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BlueMeanie

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Re: Blowing Beatle myths.
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2009, 05:02:57 PM »

Where is The Pretty Things thread?

The Pretty things was used as an earlier example of heavy metal. Elvis is NOT heavy metal and has nothing to do with the subject.
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Nelson_Wilbury

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Re: Blowing Beatle myths.
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2009, 05:09:34 PM »

 :o
« Last Edit: November 15, 2009, 02:52:01 PM by Nelson_Wilbury »
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tkitna

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Re: Blowing Beatle myths.
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2009, 12:25:13 AM »

'Old Man Going' always reminded me of Kiss for some reason. It is heavy, but I would say the Kinks 'All Day And All Of The Night' is the first tune that comes to mind when metal is mentioned.
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