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[SAL]

Many people consider the Beatles the most important group to the start of progressive rock so pick songs you would consider the most progressive rock.

1. Norwegian Wood-
2. Tomorrow Never Knows
3. Love You To
4. Strawberry Fields Forever
5. A Day In the Life
6. I am the Walrus
7. Within You Without You
8. Happiness Is A Warm Gun- multi sectioned and polyrythm
9. I Want You She So Heavy
10. Side two Abbey Road

[BlueMeanie]

Interesting one this. As Prog rock is generally termed as "a mostly British attempt to elevate rock music to new levels of artistic credibility", and given that it almost certainly developed out of 60's psychedelic music, I'd say you had a good point there.

If we take prog as being something that drew from many diverse influences, and attempted to break the boundaries of what was thought of as 'normal' rock/pop music, then most of the list above would qualify. However, I've never thought that just the use of an odd instrument, and the ocassional obscure lyric qualified a song to be psychedelic. So I wouldn't include Norwegian Wood in there. And I'm not sure of 8, 9, and 10 on the list, but the rest would appear to qualify as possibly the beginnings of prog.

Of course, The Beatles weren't the only one's experimenting with new sounds and song structures at the time.

[Kevin]

Of course, The Beatles weren't the only one's experimenting with new sounds and song structures at the time.

That's it in a nub. For instance Zappa's "Freak Out" (June 66) was a double concept album that featured a range of styles, orchestration and sound collages. Surely that most hold some pretensions to the beginnings of Prog?Didn't John say Pepper was going to be their Freak Out?
I don't think The Beatles invented much at all. Thanks to Beatlemania their access to unlimited studio time and resources, complete artistic control, openess to influences and being equipped with the two best songwriters in the business meant that they could take all these obscure (to the mainstream) ideas and turn them into something palatable for the great unwashed. And just at the time when experimentation and pushing boundaries was rocks new driving force.
And I don't mean that as a criticism - no one else managed to do it.

[BlueMeanie]

Having been the most successful, and famous does lend certain advantages. Freak Out was hardly known outside of the US, and not even that well known there. Some of the artists that The Beatles drew from were never heard in the UK until Radio One came to air, unless you were lucky enough to be able to pick up a pirate station. This thread also draws comparison to the 'Firsts' thread, in that, it's very easy to be considered the first, if you haven't heard what came before. Not suggesting you haven't though SAL. But at the time, some of what The Beatles were doing was considered a revelation, even though they weren't THE pioneers, but popular pioneers.

Interesting thread, this one.

[SAL]

They are considered by many musicians as the biggest influence to the start of progressive rock. No one invents things in rock without looking back in the past. They certainly started Indian Progressive Rock with Love You To. Strawberry Fields Forever with its combination of mellotron and strings also pointed to bands like ELO and Wizard. Pink Floyd and Yes used Abbey Road as an example on how to craft songs together. They did a lot and so did Zappa who I like a lot. Tomorrow Never Knows uses so many things that would be influential not in progressive rock but in music in general

www.progressiverock.com


The Beatles did three things that changed the course of popular music: 1) they wrote their own songs; 2) they took control of the recording process; and 3) they gave us Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band. Released at the height of the summer of 1967, the Beatles had been off the road for almost eighteen months and immersed at Abbey Road studios. That it is a conceptual album, and not just a collection of songs, makes Sgt Pepper the landmark that it is. From the jacket photo, to the music on the vinyl, to even the cutout inserts inside, exercising their creativity was the Beatles end game, and in this album it would fully manifest. While others had attempted it, the Beatles delivered the object - a record album - that everyone wanted and would want to create. After the previous year

[BlueMeanie]

There you go again, quoting from other sources. We can all read those, what's important here is YOUR opinion, and what YOU think makes these songs progressive. The conversation isn't interesting otherwise. We've read the books, tell us how you see it.

[Kevin]

Sorry - but that kind of gushing kowtowing is what gives Beatles people a bad name.
Just for starters - it's wrong on its very first point. Pepper wasn't a concept album, and whatever juice you squeeze from that lemon we've already established it wasn't the first.
And please: Indian Progressive Rock??? You make that sound like a good thing.

[SAL]

This is my opinion the Beatles use of Indian instruments with rock instruments was huge. The Beatles use of backward tapes with pyschedelic rock. The use of exotic Indian drones. The use of mellotron with strings on Strawberry Fields Forever. The use of mixed meters on many songs. The use of avant strings type of arrangements, A Day in the Life and I Am The Walrus. The extensive use of tape loops on Tomorrow Never Knows. The just the overall experimental nature in songs like Love You To, Blue Jay Way and Within You Withou You was a huge departure from what was being in rock music at the time. Also look at how Sgt Pepper was presented the album art and how all the songs were linked together. The biggest thing for me is the amount of progressive rock artists who have cited them as a influence, including, King Crimson, Jethro Tull and Yes. I think Zappa had a huge effect also but the differnece the Beatles were able to project this to people who could like it.

[Kevin]

. I think Zappa had a huge effect also but the differnece the Beatles were able to project this to people who could like it.

Amen. On that we agree.

What distinguished Zappa from the rest was the incorporation of avant garde jazz elements as well as a distinctive fusion of every form of music found on terra firma. He had been experimenting w/ "heady" forms long before the Beatles. I remember seeing a short film showing a young, clean-cut Zappa giving a demonstration on how to be a virtuoso on a bicycle tire. He was an innovator that the general record-buying public wasnt yet "atuned to" . I agree w/ the comment that Sgt. Pepper --in all it's eclectic glory--was merely the first palatable piece of "art"-pop the world was sure to devour ..because it was from The Beatles. It became a worldwide sensation, but I also remember personally what an incredible curiosity it was when it first appeared. I agree : the Beatles were not the creators of "progressive"pop/rock, but they will be forever regarded as the form's most heralded practioners.

(ps: I for one, never use "other sources" for my posted comments. I agree whole-heartedly w/ BM on that point--if we must cite existing articles, what's the point of these threads ? Our own opinions, whether occasionally riddled w/ inaccuracies and even pompous declarations (something I'm apt to be guilty of frequently), is FAR preferable to rehashing the views of "professional" musicologists and the like. In short, I'd much rather hear YOU guys than THOSE guys..at least the opinions will be entirely subjective--which is the reason I think we all come here in the first place)

-MMM

[BlueMeanie]

(ps: I for one, never use "other sources" for my posted comments. I agree whole-heartedly w/ BM on that point--if we must cite existing articles, what's the point of these threads ? Our own opinions, whether occasionally riddled w/ inaccuracies and even pompous declarations (something I'm apt to be guilty of frequently), is FAR preferable to rehashing the views of "professional" musicologists and the like. In short, I'd much rather hear YOU guys than THOSE guys..at least the opinions will be entirely subjective--which is the reason I think we all come here in the first place)

My point exactly. Well said. By all means use references to back up what you're saying, but at least say something first! The 'he said this, so it must be true' approach just doesn't lend itself to open disussion.

there ya go, quoting other sources again...

ME