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[Loco Mo]

I'd love to see Ringo playing that amazing solo at "The End" of Abbey Road.  I imagine it'd be all over You Tube if there were video of it.  It makes me wonder how much stuff they may have filmed when they were making all their respective albums.

[nimrod]

I'd love to see Ringo playing that amazing solo at "The End" of Abbey Road.  I imagine it'd be all over You Tube if there were video of it.  It makes me wonder how much stuff they may have filmed when they were making all their respective albums.

It would surely be awesome if we could see all four of them recording the end but I've never heard of a video showing this

[Moogmodule]

After their experience of filming Let it Be I think the chances of anyone getting a film camera into a Beatles studio session was somewhere between nil and zero.

[Loco Mo]

I want to add a few thoughts about Ringo's solo.  I used to be a drummer so I think I know what I'm talking about.

Ringo's bass drum beat is very rapid and steady.  For his drum solo to work effectively, his timing would have to be perfect.  He couldn't slow down or speed up.  And he couldn't mistakenly miss a beat either.

My opinion is that Ringo had excellent timing in this solo.

Also, the bass drum beat would have been challenging to maintain even though the solo was brief (about 30 seconds).  Feet get tired and cramp easily.  A drummer needs to have a comfortable pedal posture.  I never did.  I've seen videos of jazz drummers with excellent foot technique - the type that is required for playing up-tempos for sustained periods of time.  I assume Ringo had a good non-physically wearing technique which enabled him to play such a solid fast beat.  I don't think I've ever seen a foot shot of Ringo playing the bass drum.  I don't even know if he did a 2nd and 4th beat on the high-hat.  I did because of music lessons in which the instructor told me to alternate beats on the high-hat.

Ringo's solo sounds spontaneous and unrehearsed.  I don't know if it was but I am impressed by Ringo's ability to move around the drum set in such a tuneful way.  He's obviously very aware of how his drums will sound and seems able to create pleasant alterations of sounds without necessarily having to analyze the patterns first.  Rather, they seem to flow naturally.  Again, this would be a challenge for many average drummers.

One more thing I want to say about a rapid bass drum beat:  It would be very easy to lose control, timing and precision the longer you play it.  Maybe this is partly why Ringo's solo was so short.  It could also have been an aesthetic choice on Ringo's part because the shorter solo may have sounded better for this particular musical interlude than a longer solo would have sounded.

Well, I expect percussive minded people (such as drummers) may be interested in my observations (hopefully).

Thanks for reading them.

[nimrod]

I want to add a few thoughts about Ringo's solo.  I used to be a drummer so I think I know what I'm talking about.

Ringo's bass drum beat is very rapid and steady.  For his drum solo to work effectively, his timing would have to be perfect.  He couldn't slow down or speed up.  And he couldn't mistakenly miss a beat either.

My opinion is that Ringo had excellent timing in this solo.

Also, the bass drum beat would have been challenging to maintain even though the solo was brief (about 30 seconds).  Feet get tired and cramp easily.  A drummer needs to have a comfortable pedal posture.  I never did.  I've seen videos of jazz drummers with excellent foot technique - the type that is required for playing up-tempos for sustained periods of time.  I assume Ringo had a good non-physically wearing technique which enabled him to play such a solid fast beat.  I don't think I've ever seen a foot shot of Ringo playing the bass drum.  I don't even know if he did a 2nd and 4th beat on the high-hat.  I did because of music lessons in which the instructor told me to alternate beats on the high-hat.

Ringo's solo sounds spontaneous and unrehearsed.  I don't know if it was but I am impressed by Ringo's ability to move around the drum set in such a tuneful way.  He's obviously very aware of how his drums will sound and seems able to create pleasant alterations of sounds without necessarily having to analyze the patterns first.  Rather, they seem to flow naturally.  Again, this would be a challenge for many average drummers.

One more thing I want to say about a rapid bass drum beat:  It would be very easy to lose control, timing and precision the longer you play it.  Maybe this is partly why Ringo's solo was so short.  It could also have been an aesthetic choice on Ringo's part because the shorter solo may have sounded better for this particular musical interlude than a longer solo would have sounded.

Well, I expect percussive minded people (such as drummers) may be interested in my observations (hopefully).

Thanks for reading them.

Good post Loco, Ive always thought that solo was quite simple but you describing the foot control makes me think its not so simple but actually quite skilfull.

[tkitna]

It is simple.  Its just maintaining 8th notes on the bass with a few simple fills up and down the toms.  Every drummer I know can play it.  I love Ringo and its a cool little solo, but its hardly anywhere close to his best work.

[Hello Goodbye]

https://youtu.be/UvvfeRECuII


https://youtu.be/0NCczct2ZIM

[blmeanie]

https://youtu.be/UvvfeRECuII


https://youtu.be/0NCczct2ZIM

Great discussion, always enjoy when you drummers talk about Ringo and his skills.
The videos HG included, OMG the 2nd one is fun to watch.  Something about a skilled female drummer that has mad respect for Ringo...

Question for you guys - Ringo's style, if you grouped songs by author, does his style have clear definition and differences based on who wrote the song?  Does it slant one particular way for Paul's songs and another for John and George?  Whether intentional or not does the style on a song somewhat dictated by the author (has to right?)? 

[Loco Mo]

tkitna:

It is simple.  It's just maintaining 8th notes on the bass with a few simple fills up and down the toms.

I think the main point for me is the difficulty of maintaining 8th notes on the bass drum.  I think you are an experienced drummer and because of that, it seems simple to you.  I never achieved a high level of proficiency.

One way for anyone to test how good their sense of timing is this:  Try to tap out the beats for each second for one minute.  It's not easy - even if you try to tap for every two seconds.  Timing is not something simple IMO.

[Loco Mo]

blmeanie:  Re: Ringo's style

Does it slant one particular way for Paul's songs and another for John and George?

This is a very good question and I've never thought about this until now.

My first thought is that Paul seems to be the Beatle who would most likely have "dictated" to Ringo what type of percussive arrangements he wanted for his songs.

I can imagine John kind of hinting at something and sort of trusting Ringo's intuition to come up with the right sounds.  I'm not sure about George but I think he and Ringo were pretty tight and equally respected each other.

As far as evaluating the song catalog for differences, that will be an enormous undertaking.  I will try to do some samplings here and there and get back to you.

Thanks for asking a very good question!

[Loco Mo]

Hello Goodbye:  Thanks for posting those videos.  I was aware of Sina's video but I'd never watched it until now.

It makes me appreciate Ringo even more.  You can almost hear the song in Ringo's backings.  This guy wasn't just playing drums; he was playing a musical instrument that truly added to the character and themes of the songs.

"Come together" is an amazing piece that I think I've generally taken for granted.  I've never really thought about how great he was on "Tomorrow never knows," Ticket to Ride," "Something," "Here comes the Sun," "My Guitar gently weeps," etc.  I mean does anyone think about the drums while listening to these wonderful songs?  Yet when you actually focus on Ringo's drumming, you can then hear how important his backings were and how they contributed to the power and beauty of those songs.

I don't think I could play along to "Nowhere Man" and certainly not to "Yesterday."  How on earth can you play along to that song?  It sounds like it's totally meant to be a solo number by Paul.

I notice that Ringo seems to have some familiarity with military type drumming.  Maybe I'm imagining this but I can hear that quality in some of his repetitive fills that sound something like short single stroke rolls in succession.  Ringo must have had some lessons in school or from someone.  Most likely the average instructor would immediately focus on the rudiments of drumming for starters.  I don't know - I think Ringo knows more than he lets on.  Paul plays dumb, too, IMO.  Paul's always said he can't read music but I think that after all these years it's hard to believe that he's never tried to learn.  For both Ringo and Paul, the claim to musical illiteracy appears to add to their legend, doesn't it?  It's like saying:  Hey, we can't read music but listen to how great we are!

And the beat goes on ...

[tkitna]

Question for you guys - Ringo's style, if you grouped songs by author, does his style have clear definition and differences based on who wrote the song?  Does it slant one particular way for Paul's songs and another for John and George?  Whether intentional or not does the style on a song somewhat dictated by the author (has to right?)?

Never heard any difference due to the songwriter.  Ringo has his own style, but better than that, I always felt he played for the song.  'Come Together', 'Something', 'You Never Give Me Your Money', etc,,,.  Thats just Ringo to me. 

[tkitna]

tkitna:

I think the main point for me is the difficulty of maintaining 8th notes on the bass drum.  I think you are an experienced drummer and because of that, it seems simple to you.  I never achieved a high level of proficiency.

One way for anyone to test how good their sense of timing is this:  Try to tap out the beats for each second for one minute.  It's not easy - even if you try to tap for every two seconds.  Timing is not something simple IMO.

I get you.  Its only 30 seconds or so though.  I've played some real calf and ankle burners in my days, and thats not one of them.  Ringo did have great timing though for the most part and I respect everything he does.

Here's a nice drum cover of 'Hey Bulldog'.  The guy doesnt play it right, but he's pretty decent over all.  I enjoyed watching him.  He does drag a few times before he warms up, but I still dug it. 

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye4RNpxU3rM" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye4RNpxU3rM</a>

 

[Loco Mo]

tkitna:  Thanks for posting the Bulldog video drum version by Matt Baker.  I think I'd have enjoyed it more if the vocals were a little louder.

I like your statement about playing real ankle and calf burners in your drum career.  I don't think that legs and feet by their very nature were ever intended to play musical instruments.  But the drum set was designed so that they could.  Legs and feet are meant primarily for balance while standing and walking.  It really is a challenge to make them work in different ways such as in musical endeavors.

I noticed that Sina has some very speedy and limber feet both on the bass drum and the hi-hat.  In my day, you couldn't do any rapid beats on the hi-hat but apparently you can do so nowadays due to improved design of the hi-hat pedal mechanism.  I remember that there was a definite speed limit on the hi-hat.  If you exceeded it, the cymbals would get stuck somehow or wouldn't separate very quickly.  There was a limit on how fast they could open and close. It's like how old manual typewriters would hang up if you typed too fast.

And then drummers in the sixties started playing double bass drums.  It's like everyone wants to hear "fast beats" or "rolls" on the bass drum and having two of them is the only way you can achieve that.  In the old days, my impression was that the bass drum was there to mark the time signature.  It wasn't meant to be anything fancy.  It was a metronome mainly.

I was never able to get a bouncy foot style like I notice some drummers do.  It's like their feet are rocking on an invisible pendulum.  I assume they're not getting cramped feet by using that type of motion.

Check out Sina's You Tube video for "Wipe Out" to see her bare feet dancing along.  It's really fun to see!

[tkitna]

Louie Bellson and Ed Shaughnessey were a couple of the first people to use the double bass drums in a musical setting.  They used them just for the added instrumentation.  I have double pedals, but I'm not very good with them.  I prefer the single pedal.  My son can make the doubles sing, but not me.  I'm more impressed with the drummers that can do insane things on a single personally like Bonham on 'Good Times Bad Times' or Danny Seraphine on a bunch of the early Chicago stuff. 

You mentioned the bouncy bass drum with the foot.  Yeah its hard and there's a certain technique and art to it.  Its something that I have to practice if a certain song calls for it.  The pedal has a lot to do with also.  I have a 60's Ludwing Speed King that's seen better days, but it responds to the bouncy stuff better than my Iron Cobras or any of the other pedals I have for some reason.  I'm sure it has a lot to do with the direct drive and its light feel compared to the strap and chain driven pedals with the heavier feel.  Of course, I'm just babbling on about my own pathetic skill level, when there are an infinite number of better drummers that have no issues at all regardless of what pedal they are using.

Speaking of songs with tasty single bass drum aspects, this is one of my favorites.  He is all over that bass drum with a single pedal.  (Vinny Parello)

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuqHlv1YPe0" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuqHlv1YPe0</a>

[tkitna]

You got me on drumming now and I'm all riled up.  Talking about the double bass, I prefer when its used sparingly.  It has a bigger impact that way.  Take Todd Sucherman for example.  He is the current drummer for STYX and just an absolute monster.  Probably the best live drummer I have ever seen.  If there is a negative with Sucherman, its that he's to good.  Seriously.  He throws down the baddest, most incredible fills in every single song on a constant basis.  There's no buildup.  Its always mind blowing, all of the time.  Its awesome, but you soon get bored of it after awhile.  I prefer a drummer with more restraint that picks a part of a song to show you he has the skills, but doesn't dwell on it.  That is the wow factor to me. 

[tkitna]

Here's an example of Sucherman playing 'Blue Collar Man'.  See what I mean about throwing the whole enchilada in all the time.  Double bass, incredible snare rudiments, the hit hat work,,,etc.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AdXd4gU6gs" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AdXd4gU6gs</a>

[Loco Mo]

tkitna:  Listen to this song, "Summer Rolling," by Sina.  I love it!!  I will comment on your recent posts later.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuBUtN62UwA" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuBUtN62UwA</a>

[Moogmodule]

Here's an example of Sucherman playing 'Blue Collar Man'.  See what I mean about throwing the whole enchilada in all the time.  Double bass, incredible snare rudiments, the hit hat work,,,etc.

I see what you mean. Amazing skills. But very full on.

I suppose Styx’s music lends itself a bit to that style, unlike this performance....

https://youtu.be/QZShA_a-5r8