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Author Topic: 10 best, 5 worst  (Read 11195 times)

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raxo

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Re: 10 best, 5 worst
« Reply #40 on: March 22, 2006, 03:27:26 PM »
Well, they only made 6 covers per album and I think they could have made some others instead (check their tracklist: BBC Sessions and on stage) ... but they chosed those ones ... in every album there are some that I don't like ... in Help!, for example ... but I love those Guys ... they were them in every case ... that's the reason why I love Guys For Sale ... I do can see/recognize/betherewith them ... that album sounds to me as if they were doing a home demo tape or something -talking only about the stuff, not about the sound quality or heir performance- ... just playing what they really want to/enjoy with ... if you know what I mean: NAKED SOMEHOW! ...  :)
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Re: 10 best, 5 worst
« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2006, 01:12:37 PM »
I wish they'd recorded a decent studio versions of Some Other Guy, A Shot Of Rhythm And Blues, Where Have You Been All My Life, I'm Gonna Sit Right Down And Cry Over You... oh I could go on forever!! ;D
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Bobber

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Re: 10 best, 5 worst
« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2006, 01:22:30 PM »
That's exactly what I mean. Better those than Honey Don't or Everybody's Trying To Be My Baby...
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raxo

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Re: 10 best, 5 worst
« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2006, 02:09:12 PM »
But it seems that they wanted those instead ... that's the way they really were ... that's the reason why I love those too ...
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Re: 10 best, 5 worst
« Reply #44 on: March 26, 2006, 12:49:35 AM »
They probably did those because they were quick and easy to record.
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raxo

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Re: 10 best, 5 worst
« Reply #45 on: March 26, 2006, 01:00:26 PM »
I think that their deadline was not so strict: they recorded Leave My Kitten Alone and were trying to record some songs using effects and innovating ... and some other songs (Some Other Guy for example) were quite familiar (easy ones too) to be there if they would have decided ... but what they did was to record some songs that they liked a lot because were part of their live performances: Rock And Roll Music, Kansas City / Hey Hey Hey Hey! and Everybody's Trying to Be My Baby were three very typical tracks of John, Paul and George on stage (even before Guymania) ... while Mr. Moonlight, Words of Love and Honey Don't are they being different (tho I think that it was just they being them): they loved that kind of music ... if not why did they record them?
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Re: 10 best, 5 worst
« Reply #46 on: March 26, 2006, 07:13:41 PM »
Not strict? They had to release a new LP for Christmas! And remember what they actually did in 1964? Here's a quick re-cap:
 
January - Christmas shows then Paris
February - Visit to America then begin working on tracks for their new LP
March - filming A Hard Day's Night and In His Own Write published
April - filming A Hard Day's Night and Around The Beatles Show
May - Holidays and NME pollwinners show and show at Prince of Wales theatre
June - more work on songs for the new LP, Ringo collapses and taken to hospital, Tour with Jimmy Nicol on drums: Denmark, Amsterdam, Hong Kong, Australia (Ringo re-joins group), New Zealand then home A Hard Day's Night LP released!
July - Liverpool premiere of AHDN film, filming Thank Your Lucky Stars, recording Top Gear and From Us To You, filming Big Night Out and Night Of A Hundred Stars, mini tour of Sweden
August - mini tour of UK, begin recording their new LP, start 25 date tour of USA
September - continuation of US tour, play Canada, back home and continue work on new LP on 29th.
October - Film Shindig, continue recording new LP, start of 4 week UK tour
November - Gig in Ireland, continue UK tour, TV appearances include: Thank Your Lucky Stars, promo for Top Of The Pops, Ready Steady Go, radio shows include: Top Gear and Saturday Club
December - Ringo's tonsils are removed, Beatles For Sale LP released, record Another Beatles' Christmas Record, commence rehaearsals and then perform Beatles' Christmas Show .

Basically - that's 2 new LPs, one film, a European tour including the UK, an antipodean tour and a US tour all bookended by 2 seasons of Christmas shows!

So yeah, the Christmas deadline for their new LP was VERY flexible - I'm just pleased they managed to produce anything at all that Xmas! ;-)
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raxo

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Re: 10 best, 5 worst
« Reply #47 on: March 26, 2006, 09:26:26 PM »
But I never said that their deadline was not strict but it was not so strict (as most people might think, I mean) ... considering when they began to record the album and comparing to the previous ones -specially A Hard Day's Night- (or even some of the next ones: Rubber Soul, for example) ...

... so with that on mind, we can see that they were not searching for easy covers to do (remember that organ part on one of them) ... and after all they used to record new songs very fast -in few takes and hours, specially at that time- so imagine how long it would take to record a well-known (at least for them) cover ... even the most obscure one ...

... I do think they recorded the album they wanted to ... and they'd already got some original material too that they refused to use (very well-known examples: You know What To Do, Don't Pass Me By, One After 909, ... ) ... so they chosed the stuff, I've got no doubt about that ...
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Re: 10 best, 5 worst
« Reply #48 on: March 26, 2006, 09:37:13 PM »
I think that time was an issue in 1964 which is why they chose to cover songs that were easy to capture in as few takes as possible.

Regarding Please Leave My Kitten Alone - I think there are other reasons (which have not been divulged) why Kitten was not used - considering Capitol was ALWAYS gagging for new material. Possibly John was not happy with his vocal - it does go a little 'off' towards the end and he was always hyper critical of his own vocals. Maybe they were not happy with the edits into and out of the instrumental break - who knows! All I know is if George Martin and The Beatles thought that this song was good enough it would have turned up on some American release  in the same way that Bad Boy did.

(flower)
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Re: 10 best, 5 worst
« Reply #49 on: March 26, 2006, 09:40:11 PM »
Quote from: raxo
But I never said that their deadline was not strict but it was not so strict (as most people might think, I mean) ... considering when they began to record the album and comparing to the previous ones -specially A Hard Day's Night- (or even some of the next ones: Rubber Soul, for example) ...


Don't worry, I wasn't meaning to disagree with YOU in particular - I was just trying to demonstrate how busy they were in 1964 and that maybe we should all be grateful that they DID manage to release, by their standards (but not in my opinion!) a 'mediocre' LP instead of nothing at all! :)
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raxo

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Re: 10 best, 5 worst
« Reply #50 on: March 26, 2006, 09:55:01 PM »
No worries ... I was trying to say that they had got lots of deadlines during the Guymania and I think that there was nothing special with Guys For Sale ... it was not an exception and they used to work in that way ...  ;)

Leave My Kitten Alone was recorded quite early (aug 14, 1964) so the deadline had nothing to do with their decision about recording covers for the next album, but its a reasoning used by lots of people ...

... and about Leave My Kitten Alone, they could have re-recorded it if they really wanted to released at that time ... I think that later they could have forgotten about its existence (there are some other examples: You Know What To Do or If You've Got Troubles -the last one according to Harrison-) ...  ??)

I do love this album 'cos I think it sums up a lot of things about them and how they were (original stuff and those covers, innovation in sounds -George's guitars and percussion specially- and styles of music, different themes in the lyrics, album cover -inspiration for album covers: for Rubber Soul (just a copy)- and the collage for Sgt. Pepper's album cover-) ... they were mature young people by that time ...  :)
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Bobber

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Re: 10 best, 5 worst
« Reply #51 on: March 28, 2006, 09:38:47 AM »
Personally, I don't think they really wanted to record the covers on For Sale. They had tasted the experience of a record with just material of their own and after For Sale that was the only thing they did. There were some songs they could have used, but You Know What To Do was never considered a serious attempt to a song, Don't Pass Me By was probably unfinished in 1964, One After 909 was merely neglected after their attempt in early 1963. I think they were really short of material of their own they could use. The pressure was on John and Paul really, George was hardly producing anything usable. The fact that they came up with beauties like I Don't Want To Spoil The Party and No Reply for instance, was a miracle in this hectic year. I really do think they wanted to record more of their own material, they just did not have the songs they wanted to do. They had an urge to go forward and not look back (to One After 909 for example). Innovative: that's the goal for every new record. Their own songs were innovative, the covers were not.
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raxo

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Re: 10 best, 5 worst
« Reply #52 on: March 28, 2006, 02:01:49 PM »
They realesed some covers in Help! ... and they had got some new originals so I can see that point but I don't agree (recording Leave My Kitten Alone so early ... that's the clue for me) ... they were composing for other artists in 1964 too and I Call Your Name was included in an EP with covers so they've got more stuff to released if they really wanted ...  ??)

... about those songs you mention:

the first one was just a demo so it seems that they decided not to go that way (it seems that they didn't worry about originals and covers at that time) ...

the second one ... well, we've already discussed about Don't Pass Me By and we all know what they said abut that already finnished song:

http://dmbeatles.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-starr/m-1136747014/s-all/


the third one: I wouldn't say it was neglected just because they didn't record it in 1963 (they -specially John and Paul- enjoyed it a lot during the Get Back project) ... and they looked back somehow if they recorded covers, don't you think? ...  :-/

... and there was innovation in the whole package ...  :)
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Bobber

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Re: 10 best, 5 worst
« Reply #53 on: March 28, 2006, 02:19:32 PM »
True, yes, of course Help! included covers -Act Naturally because Ringo wanted to do that, and the awful Dizzy Miss Lizzy. Not really the most progressive stuff in their repertoire... Yes, they were composing for other artists in 1964, but those were in most cases songs that did not fit the Beatles, like That Means A Lot or just weak songs like One And One Is Two. I Call Your Name was already released: not very Beatlish to release a song, like the singles, again on an album. They could have released We Can Work It Out and Day Tripper on Rubber Soul for instance, but they chose not to. One After 909 was recorded in 1963 but did not fit and/or was not really liked by George Martin for a start. Sure, they might have enjoyed it during the LIB sessions, but they played away a lot of old stuff then. I'm not too sure if it was really meant to be on the album.
Of course they looked back somehow when they recorded covers. That's exactly why they did not record them in later years. They did not really want to look back. They wanted to go forward.
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Kevin

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Re: 10 best, 5 worst
« Reply #54 on: March 28, 2006, 03:15:26 PM »
Interesting discussion.
It's a funny album. You can see a clear progression in the original stuff - you can trace a line on towards Rubber Soul. But those covers! I so hope that Bobber is right. I would be gutted if it turned out that it was all deliberate. They seem such a step backwards (but I know also that it was a different world then, and its dodgy to apply modern rock rules to 1964.)
Either that or AHDN has to be seen as an abberation, and that they still accepted the Please Please Me format as the norm. Were any of the covers on For Sale "new" covers (and thus thought of as warranting an airing), or were they songs they'd being covering on stage from the beginning? (I know I should know that, but...)
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raxo

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Re: 10 best, 5 worst
« Reply #55 on: March 28, 2006, 03:16:14 PM »
Ok, then ... I was only trying to put the things the way I see them ... there were more stuff that the one most people might think ... and they were taking their own decisions by that time (it wouldn't be 1962, no more ... they wanted Love Me Do and so it was!) ...  :)

... about "songs that did not fit the" Guys there would be a lot to talk about -I think- ... let's remember that what they did with I Call Your Name is an exception, not the rule ... it was not a single with original songs: again a case that shows that we mustn't think that things were so strict -remembering that old topic about Yesterday credits and all that- ... ;)

... during the Get Back project they played One After 909 so many times (and Paul liked the lyrics so much) that John was bored about it at the end of the month ... you see ...  :-/  ;D ...

... I still think that they recorded the album they really wanted to ... playing the songs they liked and the instruments in the way they wanted to ...  ;)
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Bobber

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Re: 10 best, 5 worst
« Reply #56 on: March 28, 2006, 03:21:26 PM »
Quote from: kevin_b
Interesting discussion.
It's a funny album. You can see a clear progression in the original stuff - you can trace a line on towards Rubber Soul. But those covers! I so hope that Bobber is right. I would be gutted if it turned out that it was all deliberate. They seem such a step backwards (but I know also that it was a different world then, and its dodgy to apply modern rock rules to 1964.)
Either that or AHDN has to be seen as an abberation, and that they still accepted the Please Please Me format as the norm. Were any of the covers on For Sale "new" covers (and thus thought of as warranting an airing), or were they songs they'd being covering on stage from the beginning? (I know I should know that, but...)

Mr Moonlight, Honey Don't, Everybody's Trying To Be My Baby, Rock And Roll Music, Kansas City are old 'favourites' from the Cavern days for sure. It's my opinion they were short of good repertoire, that is original material. I'm quite sure they wanted to put their own stuff on the albums. But then Xmas was coming and a new record had to be put out.... Might not have been their decision...
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Kevin

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Re: 10 best, 5 worst
« Reply #57 on: March 28, 2006, 03:26:21 PM »
I'm with you on that Bobber.
The only thing that bugs me is Help!  If you ignore AHDN then For Sale doesn't feel that out of place at all. Were they still that short of original material eight months later that they still needed to do covers to fill the gap? It makes AHDN look more and more like an oddity, and For Sale the norm.
Bugger. I'm changing my mind again.
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raxo

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Re: 10 best, 5 worst
« Reply #58 on: March 28, 2006, 03:35:02 PM »
Quote from: Bobber

Mr Moonlight, Honey Don't, Everybody's Trying To Be My Baby, Rock And Roll Music, Kansas City are old 'favourites' from the Cavern days for sure. It's my opinion they were short of good repertoire, that is original material. I'm quite sure they wanted to put their own stuff on the albums. But then Xmas was coming and a new record had to be put out.... Might not have been their decision...

They began to record songs for the album in summer so they had got time, at least as much as always (and we know that original songs to use too) ... and they began to do covers -Leave My Kitten Alone was recorded in that summer, in august, too- from the very beginning (it was not necessary a matter of time or stuff) ...

... they were who they were and still played covers on stage in 1966 so it was not so weird for them in 1964 to record them ... they tried to give more to people in their albums and they began to think about only own material later (end of 1965 beginning of 1966) ... in 1964 things were like this somehow ...  :-/
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raxo

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Re: 10 best, 5 worst
« Reply #59 on: March 28, 2006, 03:42:58 PM »
Quote from: kevin_b
I'm with you on that Bobber.
The only thing that bugs me is Help!  If you ignore AHDN then For Sale doesn't feel that out of place at all. Were they still that short of original material eight months later that they still needed to do covers to fill the gap? It makes AHDN look more and more like an oddity, and For Sale the norm.
Bugger. I'm changing my mind again.

For Help! they released Ticket To Ride and Help! as A-sides being in the album too!!! (another case to think that things were not so strict, one thing they didn't do for Guys For Sale, for example ... why?  ??) ) ...

... and they had got -at least-: That Means A Lot, If You've Got Troubles and Wait ... so again it was not a matter of stuff ...
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