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[Joost]

There are dozen of artists that have 'borrowed' melodies and riffs from the Beatles for their own songs... But what did the Beatles 'borrow' from others?

Well known examples are of course the intro of "Lady Madonna", which sound exactly like the intro of "Bad Penny Blues", and "Because", which was based on Beethoven's "Moonlight Sonata".

A while ago, I got the CD "The Very Best of the Tower Recordings" by The Sunrays (a Beach Boys soundalike band managed and produced by Murry Wilson, father of Brian, Carl and Dennis Wilson). There's a song on that CD called "I Live For The Sun" (which went to #51 in the US in 1965) which has a part where they sing "Sun, sun, sun, sun" and it sounds an awful lot like the "Sun, sun, sun" in "Here Comes The Sun". And obviously "I Live For The Sun" predates "Here Comes The Sun". I wonder if George consciously or unconsciously used that part, or if it's maybe just entirely coincidental... Or maybe I'm just hearing something that nobody else hears...

[alexis]

There are dozen of artists that have 'borrowed' melodies and riffs from the Beatles for their own songs... But what did the Beatles 'borrow' from others?

Well known examples are of course the intro of "Lady Madonna", which sound exactly like the intro of "Bad Penny Blues", and "Because", which was based on Beethoven's "Moonlight Sonata".

A while ago, I got the CD "The Very Best of the Tower Recordings" by The Sunrays (a Beach Boys soundalike band managed and produced by Murry Wilson, father of Brian, Carl and Dennis Wilson). There's a song on that CD called "I Live For The Sun" (which went to #51 in the US in 1965) which has a part where they sing "Sun, sun, sun, sun" and it sounds an awful lot like the "Sun, sun, sun" in "Here Comes The Sun". And obviously "I Live For The Sun" predates "Here Comes The Sun". I wonder if George consciously or unconsciously used that part, or if it's maybe just entirely coincidental... Or maybe I'm just hearing something that nobody else hears...

John lost a suit to Chuck Berry's publishers who stated he "used without authorization" one of Chuck's songs in "Come Together".

Similarly, George had to pay up for nicking the Chiffon's (?) "He's so fine" in his #1 single "My Sweet Lord".

Didn't know about Bad Penny Blues, I'll have to look that one up!

Also, Paul has a song on Chaos and Creation the intro of which is almost completely ripped off from a popular 60s song. Can't remember which at this time, maybe someone can chip in.

In my mind, the bottom line is that it is pretty much impossible to write something in isolation from what's been written before. In most cases, I believe, what makes a new song attractive is it's originality ... + its roots in the familiar.

For example, Yoko's screeching is original, but (at least to most westerners) not really familiar-sounding ;-)

[Joost]

Didn't know about Bad Penny Blues, I'll have to look that one up!

That wasn't even subconsciously, I believe Paul actually asked George Martin to play something similar to Bad Penny Blues for the intro! It sure does sound an awful lot like it.

[Ligger]

For my money, 'Love Me Do'

sounds an awful lot like Roy Orbison's 'Candy Man.'

And 'Taxman' sounds as if it were stolen note for note from

Paul Weller's old band,The Jam. Their song, 'Start.' (joke)

[Mairi]

"Tell Me Why" always reminded me of "Why Do Fools Fall In Love".

[Andy Smith]

"Tell Me Why" always reminded me of "Why Do Fools Fall In Love".

interesting!  :

[Ligger]

I think that you are on to something there, Mairi. I agree.

Those thieves.

[Ligger]

Here is an insightful youtube video about John's harmonica style on 'Love Me Do.'

kdXzJaCeHP8

Bruce and Del discuss headlining at the Tower Ballroom in early 1962 and showing John a few tricks, which they picked up playing the Texas blues clubs, and which John,in turn, shared with Brian of the Stones later on. That backstage meeting is documented with some pictures taken by Paul's little brother.







Please pardon me if this has been posted already.

[alexis]

Here is an insightful youtube video about John's harmonica style on 'Love Me Do.'


Bruce and Del discuss headlining at the Tower Ballroom in early 1962 and showing John a few tricks, which they picked up playing the Texas blues clubs, and which John,in turn, shared with Brian of the Stones later on. That backstage meeting is documented with some pictures taken by Paul's little brother.







Please pardon me if this has been posted already.

What a great post, Ligger, thank you SO MUCH!

A couple of questions please:

1) Who is the other guy, "Bruce", with Delbert McClinton?
2) Does the timing really work out for John learning harmonica from Delbert? The reason I ask is that if you look closely, the poster for the event shown in the youtube clip showed that the Beatles were Parlophone recording artists already ... meaning they had already recorded Love Me Do (and maybe From Me to You also). So does this mean that whatever John learned from Delbert was AFTER those songs?

Finally, a comment ... there has been a LOT of discussion of what kind of harmonica John used on Love Me Do - a straight one, or a chromatic. John clearly states hear his had a "button", which means a chromatic. I wish I remembered what forum this big discussion was taking place on ... people were really passionate about both sides!

Thanks again for the awesome post!

[alexis]

There are dozen of artists that have 'borrowed' melodies and riffs from the Beatles for their own songs... But what did the Beatles 'borrow' from others?

Well known examples are of course the intro of "Lady Madonna", which sound exactly like the intro of "Bad Penny Blues", and "Because", which was based on Beethoven's "Moonlight Sonata".

A while ago, I got the CD "The Very Best of the Tower Recordings" by The Sunrays (a Beach Boys soundalike band managed and produced by Murry Wilson, father of Brian, Carl and Dennis Wilson). There's a song on that CD called "I Live For The Sun" (which went to #51 in the US in 1965) which has a part where they sing "Sun, sun, sun, sun" and it sounds an awful lot like the "Sun, sun, sun" in "Here Comes The Sun". And obviously "I Live For The Sun" predates "Here Comes The Sun". I wonder if George consciously or unconsciously used that part, or if it's maybe just entirely coincidental... Or maybe I'm just hearing something that nobody else hears...

Can someone post audio clips of "Bad Penny Blues" (Lady Madonna), "Candy Man" (Love Me Do), "Start" (Taxman), "I Live for the Sun" (Here Comes the Sun) please?

[Slave Trader]

Lennon stole the riff to "I Feel Fine" from Bobby Parker's "watch your step", and the "Day Tripper" riff he brutally took from Bo Diddley's "Road Runner"  (thumbsdown)

[alexis]

Lennon stole the riff to "I Feel Fine" from Bobby Parker's "watch your step", and the "Day Tripper" riff he brutally took from Bo Diddley's "Road Runner"  (thumbsdown)

Can someone please post clips of these as well? I think this is fascinating! Thanks!

[BlueMeanie]

2) Does the timing really work out for John learning harmonica from Delbert? The reason I ask is that if you look closely, the poster for the event shown in the youtube clip showed that the Beatles were Parlophone recording artists already ... meaning they had already recorded Love Me Do (and maybe From Me to You also). So does this mean that whatever John learned from Delbert was AFTER those songs?

The Poster is for a gig on 21st June 1962. Love Me Do was first recorded with Pete Best on 6th June 1962. But the final recordings (with Andy White) were not made until much later. So there would have been plenty of time for this to have taken place. If you listen to the first version you can really hear the difference in harmonica style. I'll post it on Monday if you don't know it.

[alexis]

The Poster is for a gig on 21st June 1962. Love Me Do was first recorded with Pete Best on 6th June 1962. But the final recordings (with Andy White) were not made until much later. So there would have been plenty of time for this to have taken place. If you listen to the first version you can really hear the difference in harmonica style. I'll post it on Monday if you don't know it.

I, who know nothing, do humbly beseech the keeper of the knowledge ... please Mr. Postman!

[Slave Trader]

Can someone please post clips of these as well? I think this is fascinating! Thanks!

I feel fine:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJCzjF7MvpM" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJCzjF7MvpM</a>

Day tripper:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qs8FJergjas" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qs8FJergjas</a>

(Sorry, i'm too untechnical to be able to post them directly here (blush) (crosseyed3) )

[BlueMeanie]

I feel fine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJCzjF7MvpM

Day tripper: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qs8FJergjas

(Sorry, i'm too untechnical to be able to post them directly here (blush)  )

(blush)

I think he meant 'Watch Your Step', and 'Roadrunner'. But thanks anyway.

[Slave Trader]

I think he meant 'Watch Your Step', and 'Roadrunner'. But thanks anyway.

Yeah, and the links are to those songs  

what you say, BM, sure Lennon "borrowed" those riffs, right?  (shock)

[BlueMeanie]

I, who know nothing, do humbly beseech the keeper of the knowledge ... please Mr. Postman!

Here's Love Me Do, recorded on 6th June 1962 at Abbey Road, with Pete Best on drums. You can clearly hear John's inferior harmonica style, compared to the later versions.

[sound]http://www.fileupyours.com/view/168353/27%20Love%20Me%20Do.mp3[/sound]

[alexis]

Here's Love Me Do, recorded on 6th June 1962 at Abbey Road, with Pete Best on drums. You can clearly hear John's inferior harmonica style, compared to the later versions.

[sound]http://www.fileupyours.com/view/168353/27%20Love%20Me%20Do.mp3[/sound]

Thanks, BM for posting!!

You know, mainly because the WHOLE performance on this June 62 clip was so tentative and hesitant compared to later versions, it's a tough call for me to say what the improvement in John's harmonica was due to.  As I recall, it was one of their first days in a professional recording studio, they were full of nerves ... Paul's voice is bad and John's isn't so hot either. I think I remember reading that prior to this session, on stage it was JOHN who sang the "Love Me Do" after the "Pleeeeeeeze", and George Martin made them switch it around for Paul to sing it so that John could get to the harmonica on time for his signature riff. That, plus Pete Best's erratic tempo, makes it hard for me to know if John's harmonica bits, among other things, didn't get better by the next recording session simply because they were more at ease and had practiced the arrangement more!

(I do play harmonica some, but, alas,  not well enough to tell if it's a different technique or not...)

[Ligger]

Thanks for starting this thread, Alexis, and for keeping it going, Blue. I love learning about the roots of the Beatles music. That video series about John Lennon's Portable Jukebox is a treasure of insights.

I just watched another episode about the origin of the opening guitar lick on 'I Feel Fine' from 'Watch Your Step,' written by Bobby Parker in 1961. Mr Parker seems so proud to have influenced the Beatles. In the video we also hear John talk a bit about his song writing process at the time.

mJCzjF7MvpM

I also discovered, quite by accident, one more reference to 'I Feel Fine,' in a Hollies Shindig performance of Chuck Berry's, 'Too Much Monkey Business.' During the song, each of the three vocalists takes a verse and when it comes to Graham Nash's second turn, at 1:17, he starts singing the lyrics of 'I Feel Fine.'  It is alive rendition and fun to watch. The drummer doesn't miss a beat, so it was probably planned and rehearsed that way. They obviously thought Chuck Berry had been "borrowed" from yet once again.

I wish I could post YouTube video more cleanly. Help!

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