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[Loco Mo]

What a disturbing subject!  The cruelty of people toward other people (and other species).

Movies which show scenes of that nature seem to draw audiences.  There are clips including click bait which reference scenes like these on YouTube so there are obviously viewers who want to see them.  People in some cases exonerate themselves from their voyeuristic interest by disapproving of the content in their comments.

What is especially terrifying to me is that there are people who would want to enact these sadistic scenes for real if they could find the means to do so.  I hate the idea that contrived movie scenes serve to tempt and encourage their sadistic fantasies.

There's something about the subject of cruelty which is deeply engaging yet deeply depressing.  And there is also an attendant feeling of futility or hopelessness about it.  It's as if there is a propensity for it (which shouldn't exist at all) and a paralyzing sense that the Universe itself is utterly indifferent to it and to any suffering we or any other life forms may experience.

[Normandie]

What a disturbing subject!  The cruelty of people toward other people (and other species).

Loco Mo, an even more unsettling experiment, this one on obedience to authority, was conducted by Yale's Stanley Milgram. You can read a simple, easy-to-digest description of it, and see a video clip from the actual experiment, here: https://www.simplypsychology.org/milgram.html

Solomon Asch also conducted an interesting and related study, this one on conformity: https://www.simplypsychology.org/asch-conformity.html

[Loco Mo]

Thanks, Normandie.  I remember reading about and discussing the shock experiments years ago in a Sociology course (I think).

I didn't think about this too much at the time.  But as I've gotten older, I think I've acquired more empathy overall.  I think that moral development of an individual necessarily incorporates empathy and perhaps altruism (or the consideration of it, at the very least).  The truth is I don't particularly remember classmates being unduly shocked by the results of the shock experiments.  I think there was more of an attitude of recognition, that somehow we are aware of this propensity to act with seemingly innate cruelty.  Do we sense subconsciously within ourselves that given the right triggers and bells that we would act this way, too?

I can sense the power tripping appeal of suddenly becoming an authoritarian figure over someone else.  I can see this especially in a heady, impulsive, and immature young man.  I remember hearing that twenty-something year old males are the most dangerous in terms of acting upon violent and homicidal tendencies because of the lack of empathy and positive regard for other people.  I acknowledge that there are exceptions.

I will revisit the subject per your links when convenient.  I will say this Beatles Forum can keep a viewer/reader very busy.  There's a lot of worthwhile content here. 

[Normandie]

I wonder what the halfway point between "Not too stupid" and "stunning" is. . . Maybe "mediocre"? 

Someone just posted the following comment on the photos that accompanied an article on Hillary and Chelsea Clinton: "They couldn't find more stupider [sic] hats. 

I somehow feel better now.

[Loco Mo]

Normandie:  I don't want to dwell too much on this topic but I have been thinking about "empathy" the last few days.  How does this differ from compassion, pity, sympathy and even sympathetic pain?

This would definitely be worth a paper.  If I were back in school, I'd do one for sure.  I'm thinking about 10 pages worth or so.  If you are an astute observer of human behavior and expressed personality traits, you can sense or see manifestations of these various components of feeling with regard to other people's pain and suffering.

Well, I don't think I'm going to expand on this here on this Beatles Forum.  But I am very triggered by this topic.

In the meantime, let's celebrate and appreciate our ability to feel what others may feel and let's try to expand upon our capacity for that.  I admit this is not much of a post but I wanted to write it anyway.

[Normandie]

Normandie:  I don't want to dwell too much on this topic but I have been thinking about "empathy" the last few days.  How does this differ from compassion, pity, sympathy and even sympathetic pain?

Loco Mo, I could write pages about this topic but, given all the rambling I've done on here about ocean liners and my son, I will spare you all today and keep it short. 

In short, empathy is the capacity to identify with that which another person is experiencing. That's how it differs from sympathy. For example, I can sympathize with someone who has lost a sibling, but I can't truly empathize because I have never experienced that, specifically, myself. So all I can offer, to the best of my ability, is compassion. (Pity is another story altogether.) On the other hand, I can empathize with someone who has had to make the grueling decision to put a beloved pet down, or a woman who has lost a child to miscarriage, because I have in fact experienced those traumas, and so I have a sense of what that person is going through.

I admit this is not much of a post but I wanted to write it anyway.

That's never stopped me.    And it is a good post!

[Loco Mo]

Thanks, Normandie.  If you ever feel up to writing about it, I'd love to read your definition of pity.  Isn't it similar to sympathy?

Okay, we can let this topic lie for now.  Thanks for considering it.

BTW:  I have noted that politically correct speakers use the word "empathy" overwhelmingly to the exclusion of pity and sympathy.  Those last two words seem to have negative connotations.

[Normandie]

Hi again, Loco Mo; I'm going to take a stab at answering this before I log off for awhile.

Definitions from the dictionary are, in my opinion, not terribly helpful, so I'll offer another example, which I hope will help. And you are correct: Pity is a rather pejorative term.

Sympathy involves an element of empathy, whereas pity does not. That may sound confusing, but I'll wager you and the other forum members know what I mean. For example, I can feel sympathy toward native North Dakotans who want to travel to different states and countries but do not have the financial means to do so, but I pity people here who have no desire to leave this region and broaden their cultural horizons.

Does this make sense? If not, I'm sure someone else can more clearly elucidate the variations among empathy, sympathy, and pity.

Also, you are correct in that a lot of people prefer the term empathy, even when it is not technically correct. Empathy requires the capability to identify with what someone has experienced or is experiencing.

[nimrod]

Hi again, Loco Mo; I'm going to take a stab at answering this before I log off for awhile.

Definitions from the dictionary are, in my opinion, not terribly helpful, so I'll offer another example, which I hope will help. And you are correct: Pity is a rather pejorative term.

Sympathy involves an element of empathy, whereas pity does not. That may sound confusing, but I'll wager you and the other forum members know what I mean. For example, I can feel sympathy toward native North Dakotans who want to travel to different states and countries but do not have the financial means to do so, but I pity people here who have no desire to leave this region and broaden their cultural horizons.

Does this make sense? If not, I'm sure someone else can more clearly elucidate the variations among empathy, sympathy, and pity.

Also, you are correct in that a lot of people prefer the term empathy, even when it is not technically correct. Empathy requires the capability to identify with what someone has experienced or is experiencing.

Well put K. If we had a like button I would like your last 2 posts very much

[Normandie]

Well put K. If we had a like button I would like your last 2 posts very much

Aww, thank you! That means a lot.

[Loco Mo]

nimrod: I'd press that like button, too.  I like the idea.

Talking about the subject below, two songs come to mind:

Isn't it a Pity
Sympathy for the Devil

If I can think of others, I'll post them.  I will also continue the discussion at a later point.  Thanks for your thoughtful and informative input, Normandie.

[Normandie]

I had to screenshot this to my daughters, even though they have yet to experience the teeth-gritting, tearing-my-hair-out loveliness of raising children and then realizing how very much you miss those days:

[Moogmodule]

I had to screenshot this to my daughters, even though they have yet to experience the teeth-gritting, tearing-my-hair-out loveliness of raising children and then realizing how very much you miss those days:

Very true

[nimrod]

[Moogmodule]

^^^
 

[Normandie]

https://earthbands.co/

I am definitely buying from this site for Christmas, likely Virginia bracelets for my kids (all of whom were born there), and a Myrtle Beach one for myself, if my hints to my daughters don't yield one. 

This is such an interesting concept, and it's not just the States; there are Australia (beach) locations as well. 

[nimrod]

[nimrod]

[Normandie]

I can't believe this made national news; I am cringing. I don't even want to read the comments.

https://www.foxnews.com/auto/north-dakotas-flying-farmer-wrecks-car-daredevil-jump

[Dmitry]

I can't believe this made national news; I am cringing. I don't even want to read the comments.

https://www.foxnews.com/auto/north-dakotas-flying-farmer-wrecks-car-daredevil-jump

I should move to America and put things in order