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Just what I always feared, that John and George would be gone one day and Paul would then create the revised history of the Beatles with Paul being the backbone to all the group's successes and experimentation.

Well, George was alive and somewhat kicking when the whole Anthology thing was released. I don't know the truth (who does?) and I guess even Paul has got his own version of the truth. I don't think he's rewriting history. I think it's not about 'I did this' and 'I was the one who was into the avantgarde thing' and 'I visited to most galleries'... They really had a big influence on each other. And maybe they were rivals on a particulair way, but I still believe that they were first of all friends. And then, I also believe that Paul's part on the Beatles becoming this big cannot be denied.

Uh, about Revolution #9. Somehow I can't imagine Hey Jude being on the White Album. Looking for an alternative, I'd rather place What's The New Mary Jane there.

[Ydoll Gwyn]

Well, George was alive and somewhat kicking when the whole Anthology thing was released. I don't know the truth (who does?) and I guess even Paul has got his own version of the truth. I don't think he's rewriting history. I think it's not about 'I did this' and 'I was the one who was into the avantgarde thing' and 'I visited to most galleries'... They really had a big influence on each other. And maybe they were rivals on a particulair way, but I still believe that they were first of all friends. And then, I also believe that Paul's part on the Beatles becoming this big cannot be denied.

Uh, about Revolution #9. Somehow I can't imagine Hey Jude being on the White Album. Looking for an alternative, I'd rather place What's The New Year Mary Jane there.

The underlined bit: Sorry, but THAT'S EXACTLY what Macca is doing!! He's going around saying exactly those things!!!

The bold bit: Boy, that mistype hurts your Fab Cred, man!

Jesus Christ. Don't you ever mistype anything? What's The New Mary Jane? Alright? You get the point, don't you? You do like to spell things out!
About the underlined part: again, I suggested it is NOT about those things. I don't care. Spell it out, please, not everybody here is a native English speaker. Shall we switch to Danish?

[Bobber]

Hmm. Fine discussions, eh?(clap) Let's not put salt on every snail, as the old Chinese use to say. Meaning: let's not point at every mistake somebody is making. It's about the discussion and trade of knowledge, isn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Kevin]

Hmm. Fine discussions, eh?(clap) Let's not put salt on every snail, as the old Chinese use to say. Meaning: let's not point at every mistake somebody is making. It's about the discussion and trade of knowledge, isn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Oh if only...
I think Hey Jude would have been an excellent finish for the album - the "tone" of the song and that long fade out would have been perfect.

[Bobber]

Does that mean you'd skip Goodnight as well? Fine by me, I always get a bit tired of it. Looking at the Esher demo's again -the base of the White Album- I'd rather suggest Child Of Nature or Sour Milk Sea.

[Kevin]

Apart from Revolution (the song) I don't like side 4 at all, and would burn it to the ground and start again.
I'm ashamed to say I haven't heard the songs you mention. And yes, Goodnight can go.
But then it wouldn't be the White Album I guess, and maybe its flaws are all part of the package.

[Bobber]

Sorry. You can pick up these songs here. Child of Nature is John's first approach to Jealous Guy.
http://s27.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1L1L9K9HP90D82OK743RXJVFZ6 for Sour Milk Sea and
http://s27.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=107X4CKZ4MG7F0P7D8F8ZG3VSV for Child Of Nature. I just found these songs and links somewhere...

I agree side 4 isn't the best, I like Savoy Truffle tho and Honey Pie (is that side 4?) is kinda funny too. I guess we can do without the Revolutions in our lives, at least in mine that is. But I agree again that this is The White Album, it somehow fits in. But maybe that's just because we are used to it the way it is.

I don't think Paul is rewriting history. He's been saying these things for over 30 years. He said he was listening to John Cage in the late '60s and had an open mind to more avant garde things. George Martin has acknowledged that. The difference between him and John (in my opinion) is that Paul has typically gone for creating more accessible (read commercial) product and John hooked up with Yoko, and he got off on the fact that you can create 'art' out of anything and applied it to his music, avant garde, music concrete, or however you want to spin it. Hell, he wanted Revolution 9 as an 'A' side of a single.

Thanks. That's a good point.

[Kevin]

Perhaps the point being made is that while Paul talks about being into avante garde (like it or not) this is not reflected in the music he produced, whereas it seems John absorbed and used these influences (for better or worse).

[An Apple Beatle]

Paul knows - that's why he's into such a revisionist mode these days. You know Appy, some fans actually fall for all that "Paul was the real avante garde one". On being asked to actually give us some examples, they shuffle their feet and um & ah. Fact is, Appy, the likes of us DO know. We have Rain, and Fields, and Tomorrow Never, and Walrus, and ... Well, there ya go. Case closed.

It seems it's well documented that McCartney's time with The Ashers towards the mid-sixties, played a part in his nurturing interest in the London, Avante Garde scene. Invoking a lot of classical arrangements in his compositions.

Did'nt you know Ydoll?

Thought a REAL fan might.

I think Lennon's interpretations of Psychadelia were much further down the road due to his deeper experimentations in Hallucinogenic drug taking (Mid-sixties). I personally love this time in Lennon's writing.

Is your blood boiling about Paul again Ydoll? ..........What case? I did'nt know I presented one. Ummm & Ahhh, Errrm shuffle, shuffle..... :

[Ydoll Gwyn]

I don't think Paul is rewriting history. He's been saying these things for over 30 years. He said he was listening to John Cage in the late '60s and had an open mind to more avant garde things. George Martin has acknowledged that.

I think he's rewriting history for sure - and he's been doing it for a long time, as you say. To my mind it's got a lot worse in the last five years. Both John and George cannot gainsay him.

A lot of folk were listening to Cage, it's true. Paul as well I'm sure. But my point is: who was DOING it as opposed to talking about? Mr Lennon.

[Ydoll Gwyn]

It seems it's well documented that McCartney's time with The Ashers towards the mid-sixties, played a part in his nurturing interest in the London, Avante Garde scene. Invoking a lot of classical arrangements in his compositions.

Did'nt you know Ydoll?

Thought a REAL fan might.

I think Lennon's interpretations of Psychadelia were much further down the road due to his deeper experimentations in Hallucinogenic drug taking (Mid-sixties). I personally love this time in Lennon's writing.

Yeah, yeah I know all that about Paul and the Ashers. Yadda yadda, Appy.

BUT as I just wrote in reply to a post from juniorsfarm: Paul only talked about it. John actually did it. That's the difference between the two. Kevin_b puts it better than me:
Perhaps the point being made is that while Paul talks about being into avante garde (like it or not) this is not reflected in the music he produced, whereas it seems John absorbed and used these influences (for better or worse).

And further from Appy:

Is your blood boiling about Paul again Ydoll? ..........What case? I did'nt know I presented one. Ummm & Ahhh, Errrm shuffle, shuffle..... :

Well, seems as if you're trying to put a little bit of bite into your posts, Appy. But you've failed!

What is the problem then? Paul might be into avantgarde and experimental things just as much as John or anybody else did. He's obviously been telling us he was doing so for over thirty years. John put these things into his music quite clearly, Paul chose another way of expressing himself. Can't see the problem... Paul might have been experimenting with tapes and loops and things as well as John. John had the guts to show it, and got the credits for being into this avantgarde thing. But that still doesn't mean Paul might have wanted to do the same thing, had he been the more revolutionary kind. He wasn't, but that's ok.

[Kevin]

There's that scene in A Fish Called Wanda when Kevin Kleins charachter keeps going on how clever he is because he reads Nitzche (spelling)
"Monkeys can't read Nitzche!" he says.
"Yes they can" retorted Michael Palin (I think) , "they just don't understand it."

That can count for more monkeys and people!

I think he's rewriting history for sure - and he's been doing it for a long time, as you say. To my mind it's got a lot worse in the last five years. Both John and George cannot gainsay him.

A lot of folk were listening to Cage, it's true. Paul as well I'm sure. But my point is: who was DOING it as opposed to talking about? Mr Lennon.

Right. That's what I said, but I thought the point was who was into it, not necessarily doing/creating it. I think Paul was as open minded to experimental stuff as anyone. John just took it to an extreme. I guess I wish Paul could let the John thing go. He has been duking it out with a dead man for years to prove that they were equals and it wasn't so one-sided as far as John was concerned. John has been deified, martyred, what have you, and regardless if they were both into Cage or whatever, its a battle he can't win.

[Ydoll Gwyn]

I guess I wish Paul could let the John thing go.

Yes - this is THE point isn't it?

He seems to me to be as insecure as he could be; and the irony is, he has no need to be insecure at all!

Yes - this is THE point isn't it?

He seems to me to be as insecure as he could be; and the irony is, he has no need to be insecure at all!

Agreed.