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Author Topic: The Summer Of 1960  (Read 21848 times)

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Xose

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #80 on: June 22, 2010, 10:06:14 AM »

Well. I think the oldest source so far found is this bootleg LP dated 1988:



Xosé
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Bobber

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #81 on: June 22, 2010, 11:01:08 AM »

Found this as a comment (taken from the bootleg 'The Braun-Kirchherr Tapes') on bootlegzone

In April 1960 during the school vacation Paul borrowed a neighbour's tape recorder to record the then-called "Beatals" in his family home at No.20 Forthlin Road in Liverpool. In 1961 different tapes from these sessions were given to their friends in Hamburg, Hans Walther Braun and Astrid Kirchherr. In the late 70's Frank Dostal borrowed both original tapes and spliced them together in the Teldec studio on Heussweg is Hamburg. He made three copies, one for Hans Walther Braun, one for Astrid Kirchherr and one for himself.

In April 1988 some tracks of one of these copies were released on the German LP "The Quarrymen At Home". Soon later most of the other tracks were released on a Dutch double LP called "John, Paul, George and Stu - Liverpool May 1960". The final missing vocal track "The World Is Waiting For The Sunrise" finally made it on Belmo's "Happy Christmas" single in 1991. All future CD releases were lifted from these sets which unfortunately were heavily compressed and edited. Even the official "Anthology Vol.1" double CD has the reverb and echo that was added to the tape in 1988! So it's not copied from the source tape but from the vinyl bootleg.

For the first time now you have the chance to listen to the material lifted from the original source tape. To be honest, there are still some little snippets missing but many tracks are one or two seconds longer than on any previous release and one song for the first time ever could be heard in it's entirely: "Well Darling" on all previous releases was shortened from the original 5'06" to about 2'30" or 3'30". Here it is in full length without any fades or edits!

What's left? Beware of the so-called "1969 acetate". It was made in early 1988 by the same guys who originally did "The Quarrymen At Home" LP. Now relax, float downstream and enjoy the Beatals as nature intended!

Manfred Weissleder, February 2002
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Xose

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #82 on: June 22, 2010, 11:17:38 AM »

Thank you Bobber!! ;)

That means: a thorough research should have to be done about those historical recordings, as a lot of myth have been placed over them...
Even the supposed to be 'official' Anthology is not the original source!! My God!! ???

Best!! ;)

Xosé
« Last Edit: June 22, 2010, 11:19:40 AM by Xose »
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Bobber

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #83 on: June 22, 2010, 11:50:03 AM »

There are some interesting paragraphs on dating the tapes in Richie Unterbergers 'The Unreleased Beatles'. Have you got the book? If not, I will quote the relevant parts in here.
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Xose

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #84 on: June 22, 2010, 12:35:20 PM »

There are some interesting paragraphs on dating the tapes in Richie Unterbergers 'The Unreleased Beatles'. Have you got the book? If not, I will quote the relevant parts in here.

No, I haven't. Could you quote the relevant parts here, please??

Thank you!! ;)

Xosé
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Bobber

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #85 on: June 22, 2010, 02:44:57 PM »

Quote from Richie Unterberger's 'The Unreleased Beatles'

[...]The unpleasantness starts, in fact, with the head-hurting task of trying to get one's head around the mere establishment of when, where and why this stuff was done in the first place. More confusion surrounds the tapes' murky origin than virtually anything else The Beatles recorded. It has been variously theorized that the tapes were recorded at the Art College of Liverpool, where Lennon and Sutcliffe were student at the time; at the Jacaranda club run by their first manager of sorts, Allan Williams; somewhere in Hamburg; or the apartments of John Lennon or Stuart Sutcliffe (who joined the band on bass in early 1960). Estimates for the dates of recording have varied between late 1959 and late 1960. Paul McCartney told Peter Hodgson, who sold him a tape with some of the material in 1995, that it was made in the bathroom of his home (which might at least partially explain the mounds of reverb) during a school vacation in April 1960.
That remains the best guess of date and location, though here's the first place in this volume to note that the Beatles' own memories of such details can't be taken as gospel, not when McCartney was mixing up the order of Rubber Soul and Revolver in a 1999 Mojo magazine interview, to give one example. It's pretty certain that the musicians on these crudities are Lennon, McCartney, Harrison and Sutcliffe. Despite the presence of occasional erratic percussive beats, there's no real drummer involved; according, again, to McCartney, that's Paul's younger brother Mike, who never was an official member of the band. If you were listening to the Beatles for the first time on these tapes, you might assume that Paul was the undisputed leader, as it's his singing that's heard by far the most often.
[...]
Unbelievably, there are few performances here that are even up to the level of the demo disc of 'That'll Be The Day' they'd cut almost two years or so earlier. As Peter Doggett wryly observed in Record Collector, the 1960 tapes, in contrast, "suggested the Beatles were running their carreer in reverse...they offered no hint that by the end of the years their creators would be unquestionably the best rock 'n' roll band on Merseyside."


There's a lot more information about these tapes, but this is the most relevant part about dating the tapes.
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Xose

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #86 on: June 22, 2010, 03:02:36 PM »

Quote from Richie Unterberger's 'The Unreleased Beatles'...
...There's a lot more information about these tapes, but this is the most relevant part about dating the tapes.

Excellent, Bobber... Thank you VERY much!! ;)

Is there any info about the different guitars used??

Best!! ;)

Xosé
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zipp

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #87 on: June 23, 2010, 08:00:12 AM »

Hi Xose and Bobber,

I've just re-read Unterberger's notes and he doesn't seem to have any detail on the instruments used.

He does say though, especially concerning the date of the instrumentals: "It's even been speculated that these were recorded at an entirely different time and place", but he doesn't say when (except affirming they must come 'from the same era') .

He's certainly no fan of the long instrumentals!
Just read this!

"The tempo lumbers along with the deftness of a waltzing rhinoceros, Sutcliffe plunks-plunks his bass like Charlie Brown attempting to duet with Schroeder, and George's leads are so pinched and hesitant that you can almost see him sweating with frustration as he tries to will his fingers through the paces."  :)
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Xose

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #88 on: June 23, 2010, 08:33:05 AM »

Hi zipp,

Thanks for your post!! ;)

So, we are at the same point:

1) Are those Forthlin tapes from Spring 1960?? Probably not because playing standards aren't those who would lead Larry Parness to offer them the Johnny Gentle's tour...

2) If 1) is correct..., who plays the bass heard at some songs?? Judging by playing standards..., perhaps Mike McCartney??

3) If 2) is correct..., whose was that bass??

4) Do we hear electric guitars at those tapes, or perhaps acoustic guitars with pickups??

Xosé
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An Apple Beatle

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #89 on: June 23, 2010, 10:04:41 AM »

Just my tuppence to add. Also bear in mind the young lads trying to record formally onto a tape machine. Many good live bands can struggle to capture that energy and committing to tape was obviously a massive novelty in those days. Perhaps the tape helped them ascertain their strengths and weaknesses very quickly?
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Bobber

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #90 on: June 23, 2010, 10:08:35 AM »

Plus I think they were trying to catch their own compositions, plus some covers. Just as they did later on. Are these rehearsal tapes or demo tapes?
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Bobber

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #91 on: June 23, 2010, 10:38:14 AM »

I think we will never know for sure when these recording were made. I can go with Xose's theory that these tapes were recorded before 1960, listening to the quality of play, certainly by George. On the other hand, one can imagine that it really is Stuart Sutcliffe playing the bass. We only have Paul's testimony to date the tapes, plus he confirms that it is Stuart playing, which would place the recordings after January 1960.
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Xose

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #92 on: June 23, 2010, 10:57:50 AM »

There are quite a few sources (=some of them written down, some of them by witnesses) who confirm that Stuart's playing wasn't that bad. This story began with Allan William's book in 1975, a source very valuable for one side, but full of myths at the other side.

Lead guitar playing at those tapes are REALLY a beginner's stuff, and I stick to what objective analysis of the available data can confirM. Larry Parness wouldn't want that standard playing for a professional tour laike Johnny Gentle's one. Besides: johnny Gentle himslef praised their playing in his own book. Woul Johnny Gentle praise that Forthlin Road tapes playing?? IMHO, I don't think so...

How many electric guitars -if any- are heard at those tapes??

Regarding Paul's testimony, he is well known for his bad memory, plus some of the recordings could be made AFTER Stu's recruitment. But.., which ones??

Xosé
« Last Edit: June 23, 2010, 10:59:34 AM by Xose »
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Kevin

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #93 on: June 23, 2010, 12:05:22 PM »

There are quite a few sources (=some of them written down, some of them by witnesses) who confirm that Stuart's playing wasn't that bad. This story began with Allan William's book in 1975, a source very valuable for one side, but full of myths at the other side.


The End made the same comment many years ago.
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Kevin

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #94 on: June 23, 2010, 12:10:51 PM »

doh!
« Last Edit: June 23, 2010, 12:13:40 PM by Kevin »
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Xose

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #95 on: June 26, 2010, 04:40:46 PM »

The End made the same comment many years ago.

Could you find that thread for me??

Thanks in advance!! ;)

Xosé
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Bobber

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #96 on: July 06, 2010, 10:13:15 AM »

There are quite a few sources (=some of them written down, some of them by witnesses) who confirm that Stuart's playing wasn't that bad. This story began with Allan William's book in 1975, a source very valuable for one side, but full of myths at the other side.

Lead guitar playing at those tapes are REALLY a beginner's stuff, and I stick to what objective analysis of the available data can confirM. Larry Parness wouldn't want that standard playing for a professional tour laike Johnny Gentle's one. Besides: johnny Gentle himslef praised their playing in his own book. Woul Johnny Gentle praise that Forthlin Road tapes playing?? IMHO, I don't think so...

How many electric guitars -if any- are heard at those tapes??

Regarding Paul's testimony, he is well known for his bad memory, plus some of the recordings could be made AFTER Stu's recruitment. But.., which ones??

Xosé

I really have to listen carefully to these recordings again. But it's a tough listen.
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Xose

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #97 on: July 06, 2010, 09:52:28 PM »

I really have to listen carefully to these recordings again. But it's a tough listen.

I know. But please: let me know what have you learnt after listenning to them..., ok??

Best!! ;)

Xosé
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Bobber

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #98 on: July 07, 2010, 02:39:05 PM »

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Xose

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #99 on: July 07, 2010, 03:49:19 PM »

Interesting link here: http://www.dmbeatles.com/forums/index.php?topic=6606.0


Yes, you are right:VERY interesting. Two points:

1) Judging by the photos, bass guitar player to Gene Vincent used a... Framus Star Bass!! Not an American (=Fender or Gibson) one!! ???

2) The Silver Beatles..., were not good enough for the Gene Vincent Show (=3 May 1960), but they were good enough for the 10 May audition?? ???

Xosé
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