Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

YES, I have to admit I never knew that George was SO great, damn he was too underrated.

I was really impressed that I have never heard about this song at all especially when George played it. George played it for some strange american band called Cheech & Chong in the mid of 70s. in 1974 actually. Billy Preston and some others also have played in this song.

just listen to this amazing guitar's riff:

all I can say is... this is an awesome song.

George's riff in this song reminds to me of Hendrix a bit. George. WAS. A. GENIUS.

cheech & chong - basketball jones

JIbp5C-5WXM

[adamzero]

God Almighty!  That is the most racist cartoon I've seen (that was made after 1940).  It makes "Song of the South" seem like "Do the Right Thing."  I hope George didn't have any part in the video--I'm pretty sure the "song" (which is pretty lame itself) appeared before the big-lips, big-butt-shaking, basketball-playing cartoon.   Brings to mind Thomas Nast's racist images of almost a century before.  

http://chnm.gmu.edu/courses/omalley/120/alien/harpers.jpg

[Sondra]

some strange american band called Cheech & Chong in the mid of 70s.
cheech & chong - basketball jones
JIbp5C-5WXM

You have really never heard of Cheech and Chong? Really?

Uh, anyway, they weren't some strange American band. They were a hugely popular comedy team. And their comedy was not racist. It was funny stoner orientated counter culture ground breaking genius.

Isn't this what YouTube is for?? To educate and expose this lost generation to quality entertainment? I suggest looking up "Dave's Not Here" for a start.

God Almighty!  That is the most racist cartoon I've seen (that was made after 1940).  It makes "Song of the South" seem like "Do the Right Thing."  I hope George didn't have any part in the video--I'm pretty sure the "song" (which is pretty lame itself) appeared before the big-lips, big-butt-shaking, basketball-playing cartoon.   Brings to mind Thomas Nast's racist images of almost a century before.  

http://chnm.gmu.edu/courses/omalley/120/alien/harpers.jpg

vocals are really sucky on that song, but George guitar's playing is impressive, gotta admit. I don't know how the movie was racistic or what, I never saw actually, what's so racistic about that cartoon anyway?

[adamzero]

I think the racism is primarily in the depiction of African Americans as big-lipped, big-hipped caricatures of human beings.  Just compare how the whites (particularly the basketball players) are depicted.  They have eyes, noses, chins, etc.  Basketball Jones is all lips and hat.  The character doesn't even have eyes.  Nor does he develop from his infant stage to his "adult" stage.  This would seem to indicate that African Americans don't "develop" like whites (particularly the blond basketball players) do.  

Of course the clip does contain round-headed minimalistic white "fans"--but these are nowhere near the grotesqueness of the African American characters.  Notice that the cheerleaders are all read end and thighs--with days of the week on their underwear.  

What message does this send to young, African American women, Sandra?

Of course I know Cheech and Chong.  Just because they're "counter-culture" they can't be racist?  I've never found them very funny and this lame video doesn't make me want to check out anything else they have to say.

BTW, Sandra, do you think Don Imus was racist for calling the Rutger's women's basketball team "nappy-headed hos"?  I guess his huge popularity means that he was not racist but merely providing his listeners with "quality entertainment"?

[Sondra]

I think the racism is primarily in the depiction of African Americans as big-lipped, big-hipped caricatures of human beings.  Just compare how the whites (particularly the basketball players) are depicted.  They have eyes, noses, chins, etc.  Basketball Jones is all lips and hat.  The character doesn't even have eyes.  Nor does he develop from his infant stage to his "adult" stage.  This would seem to indicate that African Americans don't "develop" like whites (particularly the blond basketball players) do.  

Of course the clip does contain round-headed minimalistic white "fans"--but these are nowhere near the grotesqueness of the African American characters.  Notice that the cheerleaders are all read end and thighs--with days of the week on their underwear.  

What message does this send to young, African American women, Sandra?

Of course I know Cheech and Chong.  Just because they're "counter-culture" they can't be racist?  I've never found them very funny and this lame video doesn't make me want to check out anything else they have to say.

BTW, Sandra, do you think Don Imus was racist for calling the Rutger's women's basketball team "nappy-headed hos"?  I guess his huge popularity means that he was not racist but merely providing his listeners with "quality entertainment"?

The video does show stereotypical views of African Americans (Jones and the cheerleaders, 'bloods'.) At the same time, everyone else in the video is a stereotypical representation of themselves. At the time, the cartoon crossed racial boundaries in satire. People found it funny whether they were black, white, Asian, etc... Like good satire, it hit everyone equally.

I think it's a big leap to go from Cheech and Chong's comedy to the Don Imus situation. I'm not going to go into a huge explanation about why I believe Cheech and Chong or comedians like them are certainly not racist though. I'm not eloquent enough to do that. I just think  you have to realize that if you start imposing political correctness on artists now, you're treading on dangerous ground. Just because you don't find the humor in it, doesn't immediately make it racist. That's not what they're about. You have to know where they're coming from and who they're speaking to. You cannot impose your personal tastes on others and force censorship just because it isn't to your liking. How would that be any different than what the PMRC or the right wing Christian crusaders try to do? Comedy isn't always light and fluffy. The great comedians have always attacked some heady issues in their comedy. And of course, not everyone will get it or appreciate it. But to immediately label it as this or that and call for censorship is just so wrong.

I would hate to think that the struggles comedians like Lenny Bruce went to will all be undone because we can no longer laugh at ourselves. Sorry if that offends you, but that's my take on it. And I don't appreciate the implication that I'm some sort of racist because I find Cheech and Chong's comedy to be funny. Which it was. And groundbreaking. Bringing up Imus was a bit unnecessary and insulting. Huge popularity has nothing to do with it.

[adamzero]

Sorry to throw an Imus at you, Sandra.  But for some, he's funny (and not "racist-funny").  I just can't believe Cheech and Chong got away with the cartoon.  I'll have to look at some Fat Albert cartoons for comparison.  

I know Cheech and Chong are equal opportunity comedians (making jokes at any group's expense), but I'll take Don Rickles for my "ethnic-based insult comedy" any day.  

I guess that's what I like about the Beatles (since this is a Beatles forum).  There are very few insults in the Beatles songs.  "Sexy Sadie" doesn't really attack the Maharishi as a Hindu (maybe an earlier form of the song did, not sure).  And the line from "Get Back" about the "Pakis" in London also got deep-sixed.  

Bottom line, the Beatles were pretty hip when it came to racial consciousness.  They were inspired by black musicians, etc.  So it just seems odd to me that George would have participated in this "ethnic-based insult comedy song."  Of course a lot of things seem funny when you're high.  

[pc31]

klaus voorman played bass on it...its on this album   called Los Cochinos
http://www.cheechandchong.com/los_cochinos_album_trax.html
check out earache my eye....

9bwEy8BQBfk

.

[Sondra]

Sorry to throw an Imus at you, Sandra.  But for some, he's funny (and not "racist-funny").  I just can't believe Cheech and Chong got away with the cartoon.  I'll have to look at some Fat Albert cartoons for comparison.  

I know Cheech and Chong are equal opportunity comedians (making jokes at any group's expense), but I'll take Don Rickles for my "ethnic-based insult comedy" any day.  

I guess that's what I like about the Beatles (since this is a Beatles forum).  There are very few insults in the Beatles songs.  "Sexy Sadie" doesn't really attack the Maharishi as a Hindu (maybe an earlier form of the song did, not sure).  And the line from "Get Back" about the "Pakis" in London also got deep-sixed.  

Bottom line, the Beatles were pretty hip when it came to racial consciousness.  They were inspired by black musicians, etc.  So it just seems odd to me that George would have participated in this "ethnic-based insult comedy song."  Of course a lot of things seem funny when you're high.  

It was a different time and people were trying to break down walls. Satire like this is often meant to provoke some sort of reaction and discussion and also point out the ridiculousness of stereotypes. Anyway, it's appreciated by many especially fellow artists. Chris Rock and Barry White did a cover version of this song for the Space Jam soundtrack. And I'm pretty sure they were highly aware of the video. It did cause controversy even back in the seventies. To know the comedy of Cheech and Chong and what they're about is important in understanding that they were far from racists. Their intent was to point out the absurd.

And I'd bet anything a lot of people would find Fat Albert cartoons racists nowadays. Which they NEVER were. But, we've been conditioned to see it even where it originally never existed. To me, that's a step backward.

Here's the rest of the people who played on that song. Couldn't point to more liberal and open minded people could you?

    * Cheech Marin - Tyrone Shoelaces (voice)
    * Darlene Love - Cheerleader (voice)
    * Michelle Phillips - Cheerleader (voice)
    * Ronnie Spector - Cheerleader (voice)
    * George Harrison - lead guitar
    * Klaus Voormann - bass
    * Jim Karsten - drums
    * Jim Keltner - percussion
    * Carole King - electric piano
    * Nicky Hopkins - piano
    * Tom Scott - saxophone
    * Billy Preston - organ

[pc31]

how come i can't get upset about what i am???

Z6E98ZRaU1s

actually when a cracker calls you a half breed it doesn't hurt as much as a native american saying it to you....
i don't see that it ever bothered chair tho she made mad money on the song....

[pc31]

basketballs jones' name was tyrone shoelaces....the whole thing is kind of racist but consider it is one minority making harmless fun at another...not a wasp doing it..basically everyone is bigoted...it was what is taught to us...if you say you aren't i believe you are only fooling yourself...wether you hate color or actions..bigots you...you can say you are not racist but if you know the slang for a race..you know bigotry...i try not to be judgemental but understanding a situation is totally different than living it....bigotry is the wrong thing to argue here...even tho i think the beats were slightly bigoted....

[pc31]

fat albert was bigoted but slanted the other way...bill is not without prejudice....

[Sondra]

fat albert was bigoted but slanted the other way...bill is not without prejudice....

How was it bigoted? Cosby based it on his own experiences growing up. If anything, it was honest. But I haven't watched in a while.

We all experience bigotry though. But it's mostly just words and ignorance. I can't tell you how many times I've heard people joke around about guineas, degos, wops, grease balls, mob connections, etc. I won't even say what one of my best friends growing up told me about Italians. It's just so dumb and small minded really. But yeah, we've all got some of it inside of us. I think it's innate. Differences always throw people.

[Geoff]

We all experience bigotry though.

And it's only some bigotries that are politically (or actually, socially) incorrect at any given time. These days you'll get it for lobbing a joke about African Americans, but Scots and the English are fair game. Assumptions about what's acceptable change over time.

[pc31]

you are wise beyond your years my dear!!!long happy roads to you!!!

[Sondra]

And it's only some bigotries that are politically (or actually, socially) incorrect at any given time. These days you'll get it for lobbing a joke about African Americans, but Scots and the English are fair game.

I think most of those of European descent are fair game. Take The Simpsons for example. Have you ever seen them have a stereotypical African American character? Yet they've had the drunken Irishmen, snooty Frenchmen, Fat Tony, the mobsters, and the pizza guy with big mustache, Groundskeeper Willy, uptight English people with bad teeth, Apu runs the convenience store, etc.

So where do we draw the line? Either we're all up for parody or none of us are? Not sure who makes these rules.  :-/

[Geoff]

So where do we draw the line? Either we're all up for parody or none of us are? Not sure who makes these rules.  :-/

Exactly; the whole business is a mass of hypocrisy and always has been. But I wouldn't recommend leaving the rule making to the people who really want to set the rules on this one because many of them are self-righteous menaces. We're better off letting people say what they think (stupid or not) and arguing back instead of trying to censor them.

[alexis]

I'll put in my two cents ... I think this promotes unproductive racial stereotypes, doesn't matter how liberal the contributors were. And I've laughed myself unconscious to Cheech and Chong many times.

If someone wants to bring up Imus, I don't know that it's up to any one of us to say it was unnecessary just because it doesn't conform to our opinions. Is it less necessary than the original post? And I hope I can say this without being accused of being insulting!

Signed,

Mr. Contrarian

[Sondra]

I'll put in my two cents ... I think this promotes unproductive racial stereotypes, doesn't matter how liberal the contributors were. And I've laughed myself unconscious to Cheech and Chong many times.

If someone wants to bring up Imus, I don't know that it's up to any one of us to say it was unnecessary just because it doesn't conform to our opinions. Is it less necessary than the original post? And I hope I can say this without being accused of being insulting!

Signed,

Mr. Contrarian

I think I said it was insulting because of what I felt was being implied by it. And if you read between the lines, you know what the intent was in including it so randomly.

I didn't really think I was accusing anyone of being insulting, I was stating that I found it insulting in its implication. I think it's fair to communicate that if that's what one is feeling. If I am wrong, then it could be clarified for me. In that case, the misunderstanding doesn't sit and fester, it's cleared up. No? And it was.

I'm glad the people on this forum are able to discuss such heated topics without falling apart. Communication is a big part of why we're able to debate without resorting to a yelling match. I think. It's so easy to misunderstand each other and make assumptions. Such as a person being racist because they enjoy the comedy of Cheech and Chong and therefore enjoy all racist remarks of any kind no matter who they come from and without any regard for context or content.

And, in my opinion, the Cheech and Chong video/song is not promoting negative stereotypes, it's tearing them down. To think otherwise is to miss the point. But again, I suppose that could be up for debate as well. This is just how I see it. So there!

 

I do enjoy your take on things though. Seriously. I get your point. Just don't agree this time!  :X

[alexis]

I think I said it was insulting because of what I felt was being implied by it. And if you read between the lines, you know what the intent was in including it so randomly.

I didn't really think I was accusing anyone of being insulting, I was stating that I found it insulting in its implication. I think it's fair to communicate that if that's what one is feeling. If I am wrong, then it could be clarified for me. In that case, the misunderstanding doesn't sit and fester, it's cleared up. No? And it was.

I'm glad the people on this forum are able to discuss such heated topics without falling apart. Communication is a big part of why we're able to debate without resorting to a yelling match. I think. It's so easy to misunderstand each other and make assumptions. Such as a person being racist because they enjoy the comedy of Cheech and Chong and therefore enjoy all racist remarks of any kind no matter who they come from and without any regard for context or content.

And, in my opinion, the Cheech and Chong video/song is not promoting negative stereotypes, it's tearing them down. To think otherwise is to miss the point. But again, I suppose that could be up for debate as well. This is just how I see it. So there!

 

I do enjoy your take on things though. Seriously. I get your point. Just don't agree this time!  :X

Thanks, Sandra, I feel the same way about your posts. Sorry so late in reply, I'm out vacationing (the Big Apple!), not at the computer as much as normally...

Anyway, the way I might look at this is -  in front of a black family I don't know who might be visiting me at home for some reason (community organizer meeting?), how would I feel playing Tyrone Shoelace and Basketball Jones?

This may not be the relevant litmus test, but it's the one that I guess popped into my head as I was trying to figure out what lay behind my thoughts and feelings on this. I actually remember Basketball Jones when it came out back then, and my feelings then were simply that it wasn't as funny as the rest of their stuff ... not having thought about it for 20+ years, it's only now I find I'm apparently more "sensitive" to the racial aspects of it. And, I agree with you, if Bill Cosby can have virtually identical caricatures on his cartoon, why not C&C? It's like the apparent taboo of white people saying the N* word, but it's fine for black people to call each other that. Go figure (I can't)!

Anyway, Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukah, Happy Kwanza, or whatever else applies (Druid Dudes Days?)!