Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Loco Mo]

Did Brian Epstein ever come out and tell the Beatles that he was gay?

I have long assumed that they just knew he was and, therefore, he didn't need to tell them.

Did he ever make any reference or quote regarding this?  I don't think he could have came out to the world back then because of the culture of the time (although it was evolving).

I haven't read much about him at all so I really don't know much about the guy.

[Moogmodule]

He did to John I think. Admitting it to him and telling John not to ever throw it back in his face or something like that. That’s the only instance I can remember reading of. He certainly couldn’t come out more generally as it was still a crime in England at the time.

But yes I think people close to him knew anyway without being told.

[Loco Mo]

Thanks, Moog.  I think Brian has been marginalized by history because of this.  He was probably the most important person the Beatles ever met.  We owe a big debt to this man - a gay man who saw something in the Beatles and didn't give up on them.  Would a straight man have been as impressed with them?  Maybe not.  And I wonder if anyone else would have persevered the way he did.

And once the Beatles hit the big time - did they really need him anymore?  Everyone wanted a piece of the Beatles and I'm sure there were a million people who wished they could have managed them.

I have the impression that John was the one who was saddened when Brian died.  Did the others shed a tear for Brian?  And John felt like Brian's death was the end of the Beatles because of remarks he made like "what are we gonna do now?"  It sounds to me like John began losing interest in the Beatles going forward from that point.

In Brian, they really lost a major player in their lives and one who was a key figure on their early road to fame and fortune.

But I really do believe that many fans have little interest in Brian's memory and the role he played in the Beatles astonishing and everlasting road to fame.

I think the fact that Brian was gay factored into the way no one ever really talked about him much.  He should have been celebrated for bringing us the Beatles!  And he should be acknowledged and remembered!

A gay man brought the world the Beatles.  Does anyone think this?  I bet not.

[Moogmodule]

I don’t know if I’d say he’s been marginalised. He’s usually bracketed with George Martin as being the true “5th Beatle”whenever such things are discussed.

With respect to the general public I think the fact is most people give nary a thought to the Beatles beyond the four principles. As time goes on fewer and fewer people for instance will be able to name George Martin as their producer. It’s not so much marginalisation as much as it is the receding into history of the Beatles means only the most basic facts about them are known outside the more enthusiastic fans.

[Pothos]

I think there is precedent for this in the literary world. Many years ago I read an article about the legacy of Jane Austen. Moderately famous during her career but she wrote only six novels, died young and was also seen by many critics as unfashionable quaint against the more gothic writings of The Bronte Sisters. In the decades that followed her work although known by academics only really took off again in the early 1870's to 1930. Another modern rediscovery is Egyptology, as a subject for scholars and public interest that only took of during the Napoleonic era.

I think musicians and academics will always care for the Musical legacy of The Beatles as well as many others. My fear is that music has been downgraded in modern culture. Hopefully this will change. I think it is a case of recording properly and factually the lives of those who were there such as Martin and Epstein.   

[Fab4Fan]

Thanks, Moog.  I think Brian has been marginalized by history because of this.  He was probably the most important person the Beatles ever met.  We owe a big debt to this man - a gay man who saw something in the Beatles and didn't give up on them.  Would a straight man have been as impressed with them?  Maybe not.  And I wonder if anyone else would have persevered the way he did.

And once the Beatles hit the big time - did they really need him anymore?  Everyone wanted a piece of the Beatles and I'm sure there were a million people who wished they could have managed them.

I have the impression that John was the one who was saddened when Brian died.  Did the others shed a tear for Brian?  And John felt like Brian's death was the end of the Beatles because of remarks he made like "what are we gonna do now?"  It sounds to me like John began losing interest in the Beatles going forward from that point.

In Brian, they really lost a major player in their lives and one who was a key figure on their early road to fame and fortune.

But I really do believe that many fans have little interest in Brian's memory and the role he played in the Beatles astonishing and everlasting road to fame.

I think the fact that Brian was gay factored into the way no one ever really talked about him much.  He should have been celebrated for bringing us the Beatles!  And he should be acknowledged and remembered!

A gay man brought the world the Beatles.  Does anyone think this?  I bet not.

In my opinion, I think you’re placing too much emphasis on the fact Brian was gay. I’m straight but don’t care one bit that Brian was gay and it’s certainly not anything that even enters my mind when I think about him as the Beatles manager.

You pondered whether Paul, George or Ringo shed a tear over Brian’s. I’m actually dumbfounded by that query. The Fab Four weren’t heartless and they are all on record as stating they loved and cared about Brian and deeply appreciated what he had done for them.

[Loco Mo]

Thanks for your comments, Fab4Fan.  I was in one of my weird moods when I wrote this.  I sometimes incline toward being very negative about different things.

Your points are well considered.  I take back what I said about PG&R not caring.

I was actually influenced about another article I read recently which suggested that Brian's memory was being lost/marginalized by time.  The author suggested that without Brian there may never have been Beatles or Beatlemania.

I take comfort knowing that all the Beatles cared about him, and not just John.  For some reason, I've only recalled John's reaction to his passing - and not the others.

When John passed, there were people who alleged that Paul didn't care because of his "what a drag" comment.  But Paul really did care and he deeply mourned John.  I think Paul still misses John very badly even to this very day.

Peace!