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[Kevin]

I think the whole Paul versus John thing is bizzare. And hero worship on a scale that we see from grown adults, and seemingly sensible, inteligent people is very unhealthy.

I find proclomations from adults that Heather is a fantasist and of course Paul is a loving caring person just as distastful as any John worshipping.

[DaveRam]

Ive always liked all four of them and i know i bang on a bit about Paul but i just like his  solo music better as a rule .
But John George and Ringo have also given me some brilliant music to enjoy over the years.
I quite like the conflict it makes The Beatles  storey fascinating , ive three brothers and i can tell you when you put four different personalities together in a room the sparks fly you have fun but you also have fights , just wish we had formed a group  

[harihead]

Lovely answer, DaveRam. I'm glad you're back.

I don't see why it's necessary to idolize or demonize any of the group. According to what I've read (which might be faulty and exhibit media bias, but still...) they were all human beings. That means they're going to do some neat stuff and make real doofuses out of themselves from time to time. Any view that leans too far to one side or the other just doesn't jive with the historical record.

I find proclomations from adults that Heather is a fantasist and of course Paul is a loving caring person just as distastful as any John worshipping.

Fully agree. I've seen even scarier stuff on Beatles sites, where our ardent young Paulshippers want to attack Heather's face with an icepick.   Now, I ask you! What justifies that amount of fanatical hatred? (I guess I missed it the first time around when Paul and John got married, but really! Talk about unbalanced.)

[Kevin]

Fully agree. I've seen even scarier stuff on Beatles sites, where our ardent young Paulshippers want to attack Heather's face with an icepick.   Now, I ask you! What justifies that amount of fanatical hatred? (I guess I missed it the first time around when Paul and John got married, but really! Talk about unbalanced.)

The Beatle Taliban. A while ago we had a bit of a debate about that Scolitti (?) guy who trashes the Beatles. Some suggested burning his books, and one even suggested perhaps we should burn Mr Scolitti.
Others have seemed to get angry ( as opposed to mocking or disdainful) when someone compares a modern band to The Beatles. Don't for God's sake call your teddy bear anything Beatleish.

[The Swine]

Actually pigs are much smarter than sheep.  Even a ram.  So John was showing his superior intellect in his choice of the smart pig vs. Paul's stupid ram.  

John [in Liverpudlian accent]: "Looook, Pawl, Ay've gawt me a peeeg!  'n he's a smawrt wun tooo."

thanks for the compliment

[BlueMeanie]

The Beatle Taliban. A while ago we had a bit of a debate about that Scolitti (?) guy who trashes the Beatles. Some suggested burning his books, and one even suggested perhaps we should burn Mr Scolitti.
Others have seemed to get angry ( as opposed to mocking or disdainful) when someone compares a modern band to The Beatles. Don't for God's sake call your teddy bear anything Beatleish.

One of the reasons I like this forum, compared to others, is that you CAN critisise, and not be lambasted for it. We've had plenty of fairly hot discussions on 'Saint John' here, the like of which would get you banned from some places I could mention. I recently said, on another thread, that I've never fallen in love with The White Album. That would bring a 'D-Day' like assault from the members of Beatlelinks FabForum.

[Kevin]

thanks for the compliment

I had to do a little research (http://www.goveg.com/f-hiddenlivespigs.asp) Apparently the result of a video game contest between yourself and some nut-munching, flea-picking tree swinger would be a close run thing indeed.
Though I reckon they'd kick your ar*e at Twister.

[harihead]

I recently said, on another thread, that I've never fallen in love with The White Album. That would bring a 'D-Day' like assault from the members of Beatlelinks FabForum.

Whereas I just read it, thought, "I agree with that as well," and moved on.

I like being able to discuss different viewpoints. When people state their reasons and offer their pros and cons, I often learn something new or come to appreciate the subject in a new way. It doesn't necessarily mean I'm going to alter my opinion, but it helps me understand the other side of the issue.

I wonder who had gag orders when John had his lips planted around Brian Epstein?

 

pure conjecture.

This is a good post. I agree with a lot of this. Here's my take -

Paul - He's an egotistical maniac who is constantly looking for acceptance when its already there in front of him. He always plays to the media portraying himself as the Mr. Goody Twoshoes that can do no wrong while also trying to act as if he's the most important figure ever pass through music. It seems as if he trys to push his music into the 'popular youth hip today' catergory all the time when it doesnt belong there. I just wish he'd let his guard down sometimes and grow some balls. Forget the public for once and tell us whats really on your mind. I cant believe we even got 'Give Ireland Back To The Irish' from him. That was really outside of his norm.


no sh*t (to everything u said above)

John - Became a hero because he died. Sorry, but its true. Yeah, he attempted to bring some peace with his goofy ass Bed-ins and acorn planting, but the only thing it accomplished was a public portrayal of some nut case. Did anybody take him seriously at the time except for a few strung out hippies? He laid in bed singing songs,,,,,,please. A better person may have tried to fix a broken relationship with their own child. He was a person that did as much bad as good. I'll leave it at that.

Bed ins and the like may have been "goofy", but it served the purpose he wanted--to call attention to the War. At least he had the guts to make himself look ridiculous for a worthy cause. What did any of the Stones do ?...or DARE I SAY, Macca??? give me a freakin' break, John WAS a hero BEFORE all this. HE always got in trouble previously for saying what was on his mind (case in point, "We're more popular than Jesus" remark--which at THAT time WAS TRUE for the kids in the UK if not the US(even though I didnt agree w/ him on that) but AT LEAST LENNON HAS BALLS. Macca (politically & philosophically speaking) is a coward...not a trend setter, a trend follower ..a "lemme jump on this bandwagon" kinda guy.

and lets not knock the kids of the counter-culture...I was one of them.. You expect me not to defend them ?? >:(that's MY f*ckin generation and I'm super proud of it. ..the so-called "strung-out" hippies were mostly highly educated east-coast college kids who opposed all the hypocritical values and allegiances of their parents (of whom many were die-hard Nixonian warmongers and racial elitists..I'll take a "strung-out hippie" over those types any day.

One of the reasons I like this forum, compared to others, is that you CAN critisise, and not be lambasted for it. .

are you F*CKING kidding? of COURSE you get "lambasted" if you defend Lennon..yes, here too. I'm a perfect example of this. But I dont really care if I get banned..I'll stick to my opinion no matter what.

[Bobber]

are you F*CKING kidding? of COURSE you get "lambasted" if you defend Lennon..yes, here too. I'm a perfect example of this. But I dont really care if I get banned..I'll stick to my opinion no matter what.

Are you drunk?

I think the Beatles were the whole "John vs. Paul thing" (apologies to George and Ringo).  Creative conflict or whatever.  It doesn't have to be something to get over.  I think people are still interested in it--sometimes very emotionally--because it goes to the heart of the mystery of the greatness of the Beatles.  

thx, very well put. I totally agree with this sentiment.


Also, Sandra, in your pic, does Paul have his hand on his own throat?  

lol...yeah...macca had just about enough of macca

Are you drunk?

quite sober.

what the hell is your point.

[Bobber]

The point is, Mr Mustard, that your voice is a bit loud.

[BlueMeanie]

quite sober.

what the hell is your point.

You don't seem quite yourself tonight Kevin.

Surely in the late sixties John was the biggest media whore on the planet. And why did he suddenly shut up with the whole activist thing as soon as New York City flopped?
Sorry, but I find his whole Messiah-complex I'm-a-genius thing very unsavoury. Every time I see the footage or read an interview it strikes me as a prime case of ego exceeding talent. (just for the record this isn't a Paul v John thing for me. All of them have tumbled from the pedestal)

"ego exceeding talent"?  ...wow...Lennon??  Not by a long shot. Even if, for arguments sake, he did let it all go to his head after a while--and I'm not conceding this point, wasnt he human? ..wasnt his initial intentions extremely well-meaning?? ..what "Messiah complex"?? THAT apellation was placed on him by detractors..when did he ever say he was the savoir of mankind. In fact, I remember him telling people who were distraught when the Beatles broke up "not to worry...it was only a rock band..it's not that important"...does this sound like the comments of a egotistical maniac?? And WHEN did he go around saying what a genius he was??? (no, that's PAUL's specialty)
(and for the record, John WAS a genius. Granted, Paul is too...but only ONE of these guys feels the powerful need to keep reminding the world how great his contributions to art was (and is). I'll let you all figure out who that is..) (clue : the erstwhile writer of "silly love songs")

[BlueMeanie]

(and for the record, John WAS a genius.

I'd love you to explain that one.

[Bobber]

"ego exceeding talent"?  ...wow...Lennon??  Not by a long shot. Even if, for arguments sake, he did let it all go to his head after a while--and I'm not conceding this point, wasnt he human? ..wasnt his initial intentions extremely well-meaning?? ..what "Messiah complex"?? THAT apellation was placed on him by detractors..when did he ever say he was the savoir of mankind. In fact, I remember him telling people who were distraught when the Beatles broke up "not to worry...it was only a rock band..it's not that important"...does this sound like the comments of a egotistical maniac?? And WHEN did he go around saying what a genius he was??? (no, that's PAUL's specialty)
(and for the record, John WAS a genius. Granted, Paul is too...but only ONE of these guys feels the powerful need to keep reminding the world how great his contributions to art was (and is). I'll let you all figure out who that is..) (clue : the erstwhile writer of "silly love songs")

You forgot about Yoko. She's going around saying what a genius John was. And she feels the powerful need th keep reminding the world how great John's contributions to art was (and is). So, in the end, the love you take...

The point is, Mr Mustard, that your voice is a bit loud.

"loud" as in audible ?  funny I dont hear a thing