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[DaveRam]

One of the great things about 60's music and why it as such lasting quality , is that there was a healthy climate of rivalry between bands ?
Getting to # 1 really meant something then. With the emergence of The Beatles many bands upted their game and many great records were released during this time.
So who do you think were The Beatles great rivals and why ? For me one of the great unsung rivals to The Beatles is the brilliant song -writing team of  " Holland - Dozier - Holland " from the " Tamla Motown " stable .
singles wise they really gave  " Lennon and McCartney " a run for their money , between 1962 and 1967 when they left Motown , they had already racked up a brilliant run of world-wide hits , their 10 # 1 songs for  " The Supremes " on Billboard between 1964 and 1967 prove they could take on The Beatles ,and thats not including the big hit's they wrote for  " The Four Tops " and other artists in the Motown stable.
This rivalry for the top spot in my opinion marks the 60's out as a great decade for music .
Dylan , The Stones ,Tamla Motown , The Who , The Kinks  ,The Beach Boys and even Elvis were all battling it out in the charts around the world . I don't think we have seen such rivalry since , it really was a  " Golden Age " for music ?

[Bobber]

I remember reading somewhere that The Beatles and The Stones made agreements on when to release their latest singles in order not to compete on the charts to much.

[Bill Harry]

The Beatles loved Motown music and included Motown covers on their debut album. They included Miracles numbers in their repertoie. Here is what I wrote about the Beatles and Smokey Robinson:
Smokey Robinson was a singer/songwriter, born in Detroit, Michigan on 19 February 1940.  He founded the Miracles in 1955. While in London he spent an evening in the company of John and Paul at the White Elephant club on 29 November 1964. At the time the Miracles had already recorded You Really Got A Hold On Me, one of Smokey

[Joost]

As a Beach Boys fans I'm probably biased, but I think that the most interesting rivalry was between the Beatles and the Beach Boys.

They were not only rivals, but they also inspired each other, copied each other's ideas and raised the bar for each other. Brian Wilson always said that "Pet Sounds" was his attempt at topping "Rubber Soul", while Paul McCartney always said that "Sgt. Pepper" was the Beatles' attempt at topping "Pet Sounds". Who knows what would've happened with both groups if Brian would've managed to finish "Smile" in 1967... People often think that because the Beach Boys' record sales dropped dramatically in 1967 they were no match for the Beatles in the end, but up until 1966 they were still serious competition:

Listen to Paul McCartney, perhaps the records biggest fan. Interviewed in 1990 when it was released on CD, Paul was typically effusive:

[An Apple Beatle]

The Beatles loved Motown music and included Motown covers on their debut album. They included Miracles numbers in their repertoie. Here is what I wrote about the Beatles and Smokey Robinson:
Smokey Robinson was a singer/songwriter, born in Detroit, Michigan on 19 February 1940.  He founded the Miracles in 1955. While in London he spent an evening in the company of John and Paul at the White Elephant club on 29 November 1964. At the time the Miracles had already recorded You Really Got A Hold On Me, one of Smokey

[harihead]

Bill, what a gorgeous post about Smokey Robinson. I feel all warm and happy.

Joost, I'm sorry, but I can't comment. I'm dead ignorant about the Beach Boys.

[Bill Harry]

In contrast to Smokey, what do you think of what Cliff Richard has said about the Beatles:

Cliff Richard has blasted The Beatles' musicianship - branding their guitar solos "horrific." The veteran crooner dominated the British music charts when the Fab Four first appeared on the music scene in 1962 - and is in disbelief their poor guitar playing was deemed sufficient enough to be included on their debut album.
He says, "Some of the guitar is so out of tune it's unbelievable. I couldn't believe that here they were in this hi-tech age and they couldn't go back and do it with a tuned guitar."
And the 67-year-old insists he has enough hit records to back up his claims, adding: "I've sold more singles than... everybody."

[BlueMeanie]

And the 67-year-old insists he has enough hit records to back up his claims, adding: "I've sold more singles than... everybody."

Yes Cliff, but you didn't write any of them, or play anything on them.

[Joost]

Yes Cliff, but you didn't write any of them, or play anything on them.

It is quite impressive though that he had number 1 hits in FIVE different decades... And he still has two years to make that six decades.

Another fact I found about Sir Cliff was actually quite disturbing:

Cliff Richard has scored fourteen #1 singles in the UK, more than any other artist other than Elvis Presley, the Beatles, and Westlife.

  :X

[DaveRam]

I remember the programme which showed Cliff as the best selling singles artist in the Uk , and yes he was by about half a million over The Beatles , but when you add John's 2  million total to The Beatles total and Paul's impressive 9 ,500, 000 million  to The Beatles total , he slips to 3rd place in the ranking .

Paul ,30 million
John ,22 ,500 ,000 million
Cliff ,21 million
The Beatles 20 ,500 ,000 million

Is their enough 000 's  there ? i was never any good with figures   but either way your 3rd Cliff

[DaveRam]

Enjoyed your post on Smokey Bill , i was listening to Smokey yesterday " Shop Around " what a great record  

[DaveRam]

I would say Motown were  " The Beatles " main rival sales wise ? , the record lable really shifted some impressive units in the 60's ,  " The Supremes " were the 3rd best selling act on Billboard behind  " The Beatles " and  " Elvis " in the 60's .
12 US # 1 singles by  " The Supremes " between 1964 and 1969 is a very impressive total  ?

[BlueMeanie]

There doesn't really seem to have been a major threat to The Beatles from within the UK. I'd have to agree with Dave that the biggest threat seems to have come from the hit machine that was Motown. And I'm sure I read somewhere that in one year (65 or 66?) The Beach Boys outsold The Beatles in the UK. Joost should know.

[Joost]

And I'm sure I read somewhere that in one year (65 or 66?) The Beach Boys outsold The Beatles in the UK. Joost should know.

I'm pretty sure that the Beach Boys never outsold the Beatles anywhere. They did beat the Beatles in a British popularity poll in 1966, maybe that's what you're thinking of?

[DaveRam]

Ive been looking at the top 10 album acts during The Beatles period , here's the list of their rivals and how they did on the UK album chart between 1963 and 1970  

1) The Beatles - 13 albums - 11 # 1's - weeks on Uk album chart - 675 weeks

2) Simon and Garfunkle  - 6 albums - 2 # 1's - weeks on UK  album chart - 628 weeks (  Bridge Over Troubled Water 1970 ) accounts for half this total and hung around until the mid 70's .

3) The Beach Boys - 11 albums , none of which went  to # 1 - weeks on UK album chart -  361 weeks

4) Tom Jones - 9 albums  -1 # 1 - weeks on the UK album chart - 322 weeks

5) The Shadows - 12 albums - 2 # 1's -weeks on UK album  chart - 315 weeks

6) Bob Dylan - 11 albums - 6 # 1's - weeks on UK album chart - 312 weeks

7) The Rolling Stones -10 albums - 5 # 1's -weeks on UK album chart - 311 weeks

8 / The Seekers - 4 albums - 1  # 1 - weeks on UK album chart - 261 weeks

9) Elvis - 13 albums - 1 # 1 - weeks on Uk album chart - 261 weeks

10) Cliff Richard - 9 albums - 1 # 1 - weeks on UK album chart - 195 weeks

Simon and Garfunkle , Dylan and the Stones look to be their main rivals  when it comes to albums  

[The Fox Drummer]

Certainly they had their influences - the Beach Boys point is a good one especially - but I feel like after they broke the Atlantic barrier, the lads didn't so much have to worry about rivals. I'd say their biggest worry when they headed to the US was the Beach Boys because they were so popular over there at that time, but otherwise everyone else was just following after them in England, and the biggest acts there were playing other stuff at the time because the big-selling acts had to be original enough that they wouldn't be taken for imitations. The Stones and The Who were playing the blues, Dylan was openly political and had a completely different sound...in terms of their genre at the time of the US visit, they didn't have any competition, and when they started branching out, they were still the forerunners of things.

Probably the period where they should have been most worried about rivals is during the making of Sgt. Pepper, when people were starting to refer to them as old hat since they hadn't put anything out for a while after Revolver, but as we all know they weren't idling about at that time and really didn't have anything to worry about.

[Joost]

The Beach Boys weren't so much the Beatles' rivals when it came to record sales, but more on an artistic level. Brian Wilson and Paul McCartney have both said on many occasions that they were intimidated by how good each new album of the other band was. They had a friendly but pretty tough competition going.

Funny thing though is that Brian Wilson always says that he didn't see the Beatles as his main rivals, but Phil Spector. But that could partially be because the Beatles openly admired him while Spector seemed to enjoy bringing him down.

[DaveRam]

Some Motown figures from the 1960's

Billboard singles chart

174 top 40 singles

80 top 10 hits

19 # 1 records

UK singles chart

93 hit singles

34 top 10 hits

4 # 1 records

I may have missed the odd record , but i think it illustrates Motown were a hit making machine during The Beatles period , and continued to be throughout the 70's  

[Bill Harry]

Of course the original 'Rivals of the Beatles' were the groups they competed with on their home ground in the days before they recorded. They competed to get the various numbers in their reportoire (before the Lennon/McCartney songs got off the ground), with Epstein even asking groups not to do certain numbers because the Beatles wanted to include them in their repertoire. In fact, on John's wedding night they were appearing on a bill with the Remo Four and John had an argument with them because they used a number the Beatles used to play.
They competed at the Cavern, Litherland Town Hall, Lathom Hall, Aintree Institute and other venues with great groups such as Kingsize Taylor & the Dominoes, the Big Three, Gerry & the Pacemakers, the Searchers, the Strangers, the Remo Four (one of Paul's favourite groups, he used to go down to the Cavern on his nights off just to see them), Rory Storm & the Hurricanes etc

[BlueMeanie]

Of course the original 'Rivals of the Beatles' were the groups they competed with on their home ground in the days before they recorded. They competed to get the various numbers in their reportoire (before the Lennon/McCartney songs got off the ground), with Epstein even asking groups not to do certain numbers because the Beatles wanted to include them in their repertoire. In fact, on John's wedding night they were appearing on a bill with the Remo Four and John had an argument with them because they used a number the Beatles used to play.
They competed at the Cavern, Litherland Town Hall, Lathom Hall, Aintree Institute and other venues with great groups such as Kingsize Taylor & the Dominoes, the Big Three, Gerry & the Pacemakers, the Searchers, the Strangers, the Remo Four (one of Paul's favourite groups, he used to go down to the Cavern on his nights off just to see them), Rory Storm & the Hurricanes etc

Maybe this is the reason that they played (and later recorded) some pretty obscure stuff?