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[harihead]

Okay, all you fans of the movie Hard Day's Night, let's pretend!

Let's say the Beatles never did replace Pete Best as their drummer. They either used a studio musician or George Martin coached Pete in the way he wanted him to sound. In any case, the music is irrelevant to this topic.

It's November of 1963 and the Beatles are big... really big! So big that United Artists is going to make a motion picture of the group. So all four of them jump into the London taxi with producer Walter Shenson just as they did-- John, Paul, George, and Pete. And Walter asks, "What type of picture do you want to make?" and the Beatles answer, "We want to make a comedy." And so the plans go ahead to have Alun Owen do a fictional day in the life of the Beatles, just as close to the original script as we can imagine.

So there you have it. 3 moptops and... Pete. Mean, moody, magnificent Pete, who in addition to being a traditionally handsome swoonworthy male, has this head of curls that won't quit and in no possible way will be tamed into a moptop. We're talking wildly different visuals and wildly different personality, with the handsome factor swinging away from Paul and George to (as rumor would have it) Pete.



Given all this, what will the movie be like? Would it still succeed, still have the humor, the charm, the personalities you have come to love?

Go!

[Hello Goodbye]

An interesting premise you've posed here, hh.  I would imagine their hard day's night would have turned out much differently.  We would have seen John, Paul and George by the canal with Charley and his friends.

Paul's grandfather would have spent the entire day at the casino




The director would have had a complete nervous breakdown




And the girls in the theater would have seen Pete, alone, on stage at his drum set





But, alas, in reality it was Ringo who was in the band.  And so we're left with:



I'm a deserter.
Are you now?
Yeah, I've blown school out.
Just you?
No, Ginger, Eddy Fallon and Ding Dong.
Ding Dong? Oh Ding Dong Bell, eh?


And all as it should be

[harihead]

Yay! Hello Goodbye takes the bait. With pretty visuals, no less. I shall adore them a while.

You're right, the plot would have to be completely different. I can't imagine Pete wandering off, or being picked on by the other three. He wouldn't have that sympathetic homeliness going for him. So who would be picked on, if Alun Owen was keen on dividing the Beatles? It would have to be George. (I can't imagine anyone picking on John or Paul; they'd have their teeth handed to them as lunch.) So we'd pick on poor, sweet George as... being too shy? Having big ears? What?

Would people even warm to the Beatles as a group? Because, if I interpret my lore correctly, Pete really didn't associate with the Beatles that much offstage. Lennon a bit, but Pete always had a girlfriend -- his Liverpool girlfriend and the stripper in Hamburg. So Pete was off snogging while the other Beatles were eating together or joking or dashing off to see Sheridan's set. He wasn't really part of the gang. Lennon's only real criticism that I heard was that he wasn't as sharp as the others; he didn't have the wit. Ringo certainly did, in spades.

HDN is built upon the gang concept. I don't think Alun could have written the same script with a different gang. Because you'd have quieter Pete being "cool" while the rest of the Beatles were being silly. I don't know how you can successfully mix cool and silly; it's like asking Elvis to come out in a tutu. It just wouldn't work. Pete was cool seduction; Beatles were boistrous fun. Oil and vinegar.

Does anyone know more about Pete? Am I way off base here? Cheers.

[raxo]

[...]
Does anyone know more about Pete? Am I way off base here? Cheers.

This is your (concise) forum:
http://www.dmbeatles.com/forums/b-fifths/

[harihead]

Thanks, Raxo! I've seen the Pete thread, but I don't really want to talk about Pete pers se. I want Pete speculation related to HDN. Really, I'm partly convinced that if Pete had been in the movie, the group wouldn't have had the "look" and the group unity that led the Beatles to capture the good will of the adult audience. I think HDN would have been just another exploitation film, and the Beatles would not have so neatly cemented their hold on the public. I think this film was crucial for making them cute and "safe", so they could be adopted as a sort of national treasure.

Middle-aged British people drinking tea:

"Have you seen the lads in their film-- what was it called?"

"Oh, yes! Lovely lads, so lovely."

"Not what I expected."

"No, no. So fresh. I quite liked them, actually."

"The Telegraph has a nice article about them."

"Lovely lads. Very sweet."

"Especially the... how was he called? The one with the nose."

"Oh, the little one!"

"Yes. Him."

"Just lovely."

[raxo]

LOL! I see now ... Good script!

[Kevin]

I agree that a huge part of The Beatles appeal was that all four had readily identifable personalties that fans could latch onto - Ringo wasn't just "the drummer." (in many ways making them the proto-boyband). But while Pete's presence would have diminished that I don't believe it would have done so to such an extent that harihead is saying. It would have hurt, but it wouldn't have been fatal. I can imagine the other three making plenty of jokes about their "moody" drummer. But I think the loss of one of the four was all they could have withstood.
But you're right, the "fourness" was a unique advantage to them. I'm guessing here, but I would say even in their heyday most members of the public would have struggled to name all five Stones, and I'd also bet there weren't many "I love you Charlie" or "Bill for president" posters at their gigs.

[raxo]

[...]
But you're right, the "fourness" was a unique advantage to them. I'm guessing here, but I would say even in their heyday most members of the public would have struggled to name all five Stones, and I'd also bet there weren't many "I love you Charlie" or "Bills for president" posters at their gigs.

You've really said something here, Kevin!!!

[harihead]

Ha-hah! Kevin votes for the "minimal impact" response, the "one out of four still makes a Beatles" belief. Can this be true? Look at Pete's hair, look at his smile! Then share your impressions. Come on out, Pete lovers and detractors. This is great.

[Apple Scruff]

I personally believe that It wouldn't have been the same if Pete was there!! I mean Ringo is the funny one, I'm not sure about Pete's personality, but he doesn't seem to be like "Ringuito" (heheh, that's how I call him) .In my opinion Ringo's performance in HDN is great (as well as in "Help"). I'm trying to be impartial here, since Ringo is my fav!!! (Sorry guys, I can't!!! hehe)

[raxo]

[...] but he doesn't seem to be like "Ringuito" (heheh, that's how I call him) [...]

LOL!!! I met another girl who used to call him so too!!!

[Apple Scruff]

LOL!!! I met another girl who used to call him so too!!!

There's some other names I like: "Ringuis", "Ringuchis", "Tiernis" (they're soooo Argentinian)hehehe. Sorry, I know it's not the topic!!!  

[raxo]

There's some other names I like: "Ringuis", "Ringuchis", "Tiernis" (they're soooo Argentinian)hehehe. Sorry, I know it's not the topic!!!  

Yep, we're somewhat off-topic here ... but I love that expresion: "Tiernis" ... his image is really "Tierna"LOL

[harihead]

That's right, stick to the subject! I for one never stray off-topic *cough* (George's Romantic Side On Songs) *cough*

Thank you, Apple Scruff, for weighing in with a strong vote for Ringo's screen presence. I personally think that Ringo had a huge impact on widening the Beatles' audience. As Ringo said in a 1988 television interview, "I had the moms and the kids; I always did." I think Ringo attracted a whole different audience from Pete; Pete would have doubled up on the teeny pull (I think most of the Beatles appealed just to teens initially; we didn't have the Cynic or the Mystic or the Intellectual spread until much later). But Pete clearly had that teen angst thing down; Ringo was just... Ringo! Kind of goofy and cute; you wanted to take him home and pinch his cheeks.

[Apple Scruff]

Ringo was just... Ringo! Kind of goofy and cute; you wanted to take him home and pinch his cheeks.

You're welcome!! I totally agree with you!!! His personality led him to be quite popular among the girls!! I've always seen Pete as a reserved person, compared to Ringo's personality. That's why I don't think HDN would have been a sucess if Pete had been there!!

Saludos!