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[alexis]

 Hi All - I see that some of you play live quite a bit  - I was wondering if I could get some advice on delays for voice.

Our set up is currently two guitars, me on keys (piano, bass, horns, etc.), with a bass player maybe to join us soon. All three of us take turns singing lead and harmony.

When I sing, I use earbuds to hear myself. I've got a little personal mixer I use to mix my voice in one channel, and my keys in another channel (when we get a better board, I'll run the other folks voices into the mix as well). The signal flow is my mic >> a pre-amp >> effects unit, which then splits the signal to my personal mixer and the main sound board.

My question is ... what kind of delay do people general put on the vocals? I've been told that delay sounds so much better than reverb coming out of the PA. Two people on other forums who I respect and are very experienced mentioned that they used delays of 450 msec for ballads, with the # repeats only two or three.

When I tried that last night at practice, however, it was incredibly unsuccessful! I'd be concentrating on my phrasing, then bam, a delay would come back to me, and then bam, another one would soon follow. I'd get very confused about what I was about to sing vs. what I sang "ages" ago that was just coming back to me as delay.

One of those experienced guys said that when the full band is playing, that the extra delays aren't really noticeable as they are pretty low volume. What I don't get is:

1) How to get used to hearing those long delays in my earbuds (my effects box, like most budget boxes, doesn't let me have a different feed, with less delay, than the main feed to the PA), and

2) On a song where the main voice is alternately solo, and then in with the whole band, how to pick a delay value (I think it would sound really weird if the solo voice had a 450 msec delay, especially if there were more than 1).

To be honest, I'm also a bit skeptical about the idea that a 450 msec delay on my voice would be good, but I'll take these other guys words for it and try it out when we are all playing (last night it was just two of us, acoustic, to work out some harmonies).

Thanks for any advice!

P.S. For what it's worth, I set the delay at 50-75 msec last night, no repeats ... it sounded a lot better than "naked" - but I'm pretty sure I can do lots better. Thanks  

[Bobber]

Apple Beatle is your man in here I guess.

[An Apple Beatle]

Hi Alexis. i digested what you wrote there.  First thing is it comes down to preference. it seems awfully a lot of bother to then be confused by the delay taps. What your guys have said there about the level of repeats through the front of house PA is right but you will get the full, clean mix in your ear. I like to try and find a preset and then adjust accordingly. A plate reverb or spring reverb are often adequate.

Funnily enough I was fiddling with 2 effects units yesterday the Peavey Deltafex & an ARt model. What model are you using? depending on what controls you have is also of importance. The art is setting the right input gain and the right amount of output effects volume. A blending of the 2 is where the nob-twisting comes in.

ok in answer to numbers

1.) You could set a preset delay to the tempo of your tune so the repeats fall on the beat. You'd have to hold good rhythm. Otherwise I would not learn to put up with it, rather than having an onstage monitor instead or no effects in the in-ear monitor mix. Easier to pitch yourself on dry vocals. The efffects could come out the front.

2.) Like I say, I'm not into mathematics but of course, some ambience on the voice is often preferable to plain dry. In a smaller set-up as a general ambience, I like to just about hear the reverb after a note has been sung/played. Short as possible. No-one wants a bad pitched note ringing too long! lol

Hope that helps and best of luck...trust your ears.

[An Apple Beatle]

PS. - Make sure the vocals sound punchy and EQ-ed before applying the effects.