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Author Topic: Penny Lane/SF on Sgt Pepper  (Read 14616 times)

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Klang

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Re: Penny Lane/SF on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #80 on: September 12, 2007, 03:11:02 AM »


For me, 'Good Morning, Good Morning' could be axed, and possibly also 'She's Leaving Home', which is quite nice but has never seemed to fit in with the rest of the album. 'When I'm Sixty-Four' seems a bit incongruous to me as well. Can't touch 'WIWY', though, and it's far better than 'Only A Northern Song' as far as I'm concerned.

I like the idea of 'SFF' after 'With A Little Help From My Friends' (a great change of mood after all the hooplah of the opening tracks), and 'Penny Lane' could be a great side 2 opener.

 :)

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wingsman

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Re: Penny Lane/SF on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #81 on: September 12, 2007, 04:18:51 PM »

I don't see SFF and PL in the Sgt Pepper. Those were songs recorded to be singles. They could never include the 2 songs in the album, because they were released 3.5 months before.

Welcome, Klang! Enjoy the forums! And talking about Pepper, an splendid time is guaranteed for all! :) (I have to stop to say that...)
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Kevin

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Re: Penny Lane/SF on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #82 on: September 12, 2007, 04:40:06 PM »

Quote from: 713
I don't see SFF and PL in the Sgt Pepper. Those were songs recorded to be singles. They could never include the 2 songs in the album, because they were released 3.5 months before.


Sorry no. They were recorded as part of what would become the Sgt Pepper Sessions. As Wiki says:
"When manager Brian Epstein pressed producer George Martin for a new Beatles single, Martin told Epstein that the group had recorded what were, in his opinion, their two finest songs to date ("Strawberry Fields Forever" and "Penny Lane"). Epstein suggested that Martin issue the songs as a double A-sided single, as they had done with their previous single, "Yellow Submarine/Eleanor Rigby". Following UK protocol in the 1960s not to include songs released as a single within a new album, both songs were ultimately left off Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band altogether. George Martin later admitted that this was his greatest mistake during his association with The Beatles."
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Bobber

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Re: Penny Lane/SF on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #83 on: September 12, 2007, 06:47:37 PM »

They had recorded three songs at that time. When I'm 64 was the other one. Martin said that two of those three songs recorded were amongst the best they had ever made. It would have been better to use either Penny Lane or Strawberry Fields as the a-side and When I'm 64 as the b-side. That would make the way clear for PL or SFF to be included on the album. Personally I feel that Penny Lane could have been the more attractive single, whereas Strawberry Fields fits somewhat better on the album.
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Re: Penny Lane/SF on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #84 on: September 12, 2007, 07:17:54 PM »

Quote from: 63
They had recorded three songs at that time. When I'm 64 was the other one. Martin said that two of those three songs recorded were amongst the best they had ever made. It would have been better to use either Penny Lane or Strawberry Fields as the a-side and When I'm 64 as the b-side. That would make the way clear for PL or SFF to be included on the album. Personally I feel that Penny Lane could have been the more attractive single, whereas Strawberry Fields fits somewhat better on the album.

this is the best placement scenario I've heard yet for PL and SFF

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Klang

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Re: Penny Lane/SF on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #85 on: September 13, 2007, 04:34:12 AM »

Quote from: 713
...Welcome, Klang! Enjoy the forums! ...

Hey, Thanks. A fun and very informed bunch of folks here. I dig a...

 8)

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Buttmunker

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Re: Penny Lane/SF on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #86 on: September 26, 2007, 01:20:41 AM »

George Harrison worked on Only A Northern Song before he worked on Within You, Without You, but George Martin didn't care for the implication to Northern Songs Inc, and the song was therefore shelved (and used later as a "throwaway" song for the Yellow Submarine movie, which is such bullspit and such a diss to Harrison).

I always loved Only A Northern Song, and never cared for Within You, Without You, but that's beside the point of this thread.  The OP mentioned that Within You was the only Harrison song on the album, therefore it couldn't be dropped, but what if Northern Song was there instead.

Anyway, and I know people will think I'm crazy, but I'd drop Day In The Life.  I find the instrumentation annoying, how it goes to that high pitch more than once in the song.  If I'm playing it in the car with older family members, they're tempted to tell me to change the CD because it is really unlistenable.

So that song is dropped.  What next?  Hmmm...drop She's Leaving Home.  That song doesn't even fit in the album's concept, if you ask me.  How biast George Martin is (or a complete ass-kisser) towards Paul vs George.  She's Leaving Home should have been the throwaway, and kept Only A Northern Song.

So, with A Day In The Life and She's Leaving Home dropped, you can now add in Penny Lane and SFF.

I never did understand why just because they were released as singles prior to the album being released that they couldn't include them?  
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matthew

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Re: Penny Lane/SF on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #87 on: September 27, 2007, 08:10:17 PM »

Quote from: 828
  How biast George Martin is (or a complete ass-kisser) towards Paul vs George.  

any evidence to support this claim?

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matthew

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Re: Penny Lane/SF on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #88 on: September 27, 2007, 08:17:40 PM »

i can't think of any song to drop from sgt peppers.... a day in the life is untouchable...

the rest of the songs are consistently great... all strong tracks... i don't see any that jump out as a possible reject

on the other hand.... dr robert on revolver
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Re: Penny Lane/SF on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #89 on: September 27, 2007, 08:20:17 PM »

on the other hand, It's Only Love off Revolver
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Re: Penny Lane/SF on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #90 on: September 27, 2007, 08:20:44 PM »

on the other hand, It's Only Love off Help! (UK)

(it was on the Capitol Rubber Soul)
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Buttmunker

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Re: Penny Lane/SF on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #91 on: October 15, 2007, 03:25:24 PM »

I never understood why "Penny Lane" and "Strawberry Fields Forever" had to be dropped from the album just because they were singles first?  "Come Together" was a single from Abbey Road, yet it was still on the album.

Frankly, I'd have dropped "She's Leaving Home" and "Fixing A Hole" to include PL & SFF.

And I would have also switched out George's "Within You Without You" with the song he wanted first - "Only A Northern Song."
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Kevin

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Re: Penny Lane/SF on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #92 on: October 15, 2007, 03:41:26 PM »

Quote from: 828
I never understood why "Penny Lane" and "Strawberry Fields Forever" had to be dropped from the album just because they were singles first?  "Come Together" was a single from Abbey Road, yet it was still on the album.

Because up to that point it had become Beatle policy not to double up singles and album tracks. The exceptions were the "soundtrack" albums AHDN and Help!
Eleanor Rigby/YS were an exception, but at least had the dignity of being released on the same day as the album so they were still "new." SFF/PL would have been nearly half a year old by the time of Pepper and could have been seen as a detraction from an album of new material.
By the time of Come Together the game was up. They'd stopped recording and needed a single. And lifting a single from an old (1 month) album would have (and still is) been much more kosher than including already released songs (half a year) on a new album.
I think to truly appreciate WYWY you have to hear it for what it was intended to be - the opener for side 2. As a song among many (how it comes across on CD) it looses its impact. Very much in the same way you have to hear Long Long Long as the closer for side 3 of the White Album, not as just another song on some long playlist. (They did think about these things you know. Openers and closers for sides of vinyl was important and gathered much attention when compiling albums.)
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BlueMeanie

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Re: Penny Lane/SF on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #93 on: October 15, 2007, 03:53:58 PM »

Quote from: 185
I think to truly appreciate WYWY you have to hear it for what it was intended to be - the opener for side 2. As a song among many (how it comes across on CD) it looses its impact. Very much in the same way you have to hear Long Long Long as the closer for side 3 of the White Album, not as just another song on some long playlist. (They did think about these things you know. Openers and closers for sides of vinyl was important and gathered much attention when compiling albums.)

It's a problem that is seldom addressed these days. The record labels just stick an old album out on CD without thinking about running order. On the CD I'd actually move WYWY to maybe come after Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds. It does feel like it's stuck out on it's own.

Some bands that still release vinyl often change the running order. Radiohead, for instance, have often done this.
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Kevin

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Re: Penny Lane/SF on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #94 on: October 15, 2007, 04:02:08 PM »

Quote from: 483

It's a problem that is seldom addressed these days. The record labels just stick an old album out on CD without thinking about running order. On the CD I'd actually move WYWY to maybe come after Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds. It does feel like it's stuck out on it's own.

Some bands that still release vinyl often change the running order. Radiohead, for instance, have often done this.

Oooh - controversial. f***ing with the running order. Tis betwixt a rock and a hard place I find myself.
Personally I think they should program CD's to stop playing at the end of a "side", and not come back on until you've rolled a joint and walked around the living room.
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BlueMeanie

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Re: Penny Lane/SF on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #95 on: October 15, 2007, 04:43:27 PM »

Quote from: 185

Oooh - controversial. f***ing with the running order. Tis betwixt a rock and a hard place I find myself.
Personally I think they should program CD's to stop playing at the end of a "side", and not come back on until you've rolled a joint and walked around the living room.

Actually not a bad idea! Automatically pause until you press play again. Not enough thought is given to CD's. They think that because they can get 80 minutes of music on them, that they must be filled up. Too many CD's I've bought over the years are at least a third 'filler', and 80 minutes is just too long without a break. It's where vinyl wins over CD; strong song to open, good song to finish side one, belter to open side 2. Now all the good stuff is just shuvved to the beginning. Sorry, I've gone OT, I shall have to have a rant on my blog!
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Buttmunker

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Re: Penny Lane/SF on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #96 on: October 15, 2007, 05:28:05 PM »

I purposely hold some good stuff back for the end of my 80 minute CD-R's :)

Of course, when it comes to Beatles, I have two solid 80 minute CD-R's with no songs I "just like."  The third one, however, I had to mix in some songs I'm only half-tired of.
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harihead

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Re: Penny Lane/SF on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #97 on: October 16, 2007, 01:45:02 AM »

I liked your rant, BlueMeanie and Kevin. Very thought-provoking. I was just noticing this about "Abbey Road"; some people were talking about "side 1" and what they meant were all the songs listed along the left on the back of the CD package. But we know it's not side 1! It was actually a little distressing, as I knew this album well in my youth and I still mentally hear the pause between switching sides.
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The Swine

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Re: Penny Lane/SF on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #98 on: October 16, 2007, 11:08:32 AM »

Quote from: 828
I never understood why "Penny Lane" and "Strawberry Fields Forever" had to be dropped from the album just because they were singles first?  "Come Together" was a single from Abbey Road, yet it was still on the album.

Frankly, I'd have dropped "She's Leaving Home" and "Fixing A Hole" to include PL & SFF.

And I would have also switched out George's "Within You Without You" with the song he wanted first - "Only A Northern Song."

only a northern song would have been the albums worst song by a mile. somehow i dont feel penny lane and strawberry fields on sgt pepper, but thats maybe because ive grown accustomed to it like it is. maybe penny lane backed by when im 64 could have been a good single, thus including strawberry fields on the album. but wasnt it the beatles policy to split the a and bsides of a single between paul and john? might be wrong here.
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Sea of Time

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Re: Penny Lane/SF on Sgt Pepper
« Reply #99 on: January 06, 2008, 01:09:25 AM »

George Martin said in his Sgt. Pepper's making of book if he could do it over he would have had either Strawberry... or Penny Lane on Sgt. Pepper's and had When I'm 64 be the b-side.
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