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Author Topic: Bob Dylan!  (Read 39314 times)

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Mr Mustard

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Re: Bob Dylan!
« Reply #500 on: August 29, 2014, 11:18:46 PM »

Ahhh Bob Dylan....

Born in Minneapolis, a precocious talent but moody/unpredictable, at times reclusive. Vastly influential but others had bigger, better loved commercial hits with his songs ("All Along The Watch Tower", "Mighty Quinn", "Mr Tambourine Man" etc) than he did. Frequently monosyllabic/uncommunicative on stage between numbers, wrapped up in himself and treading the tightrope between sulky a**hole and temperamental genius.

Will we ever see his like again?

Ahhh, Prince.....

Born in Minneapolis, a precocious talent but moody/unpredictable, at times reclusive. Vastly influential but others had bigger, better loved commercial hits with his songs ("Nothing Compares 2 U", "Manic Monday", "Kiss" etc) than he did. Frequently monosyllabic/uncommunicative on stage between numbers, wrapped up in himself and treading the tightrope between sulky a**hole and temperamental genius.

I've heard they met but didn't get on...though other reports I've read suggest a mutual respect at least. Certainly listening to Prince's "Raspberry Beret" or playing his "Fury" back to back with Bob's "All Along The Watch Tower" I sense there is a powerful congruity at work.

I don't personally "get" either of them much, but I respect and acknowledge their talent and influence.
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Moogmodule

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Re: Bob Dylan!
« Reply #501 on: August 30, 2014, 12:02:09 AM »

Ahhh Bob Dylan....

Born in Minneapolis, a precocious talent but moody/unpredictable, at times reclusive. Vastly influential but others had bigger, better loved commercial hits with his songs ("All Along The Watch Tower", "Mighty Quinn", "Mr Tambourine Man" etc) than he did. Frequently monosyllabic/uncommunicative on stage between numbers, wrapped up in himself and treading the tightrope between sulky a**hole and temperamental genius.

Will we ever see his like again?

He's definitely a one off our bob. I love lots of his stuff but I'm the first to admit he doesn't make it easy on his fans.  He comes across as a grudging performer. The way he twists his voice makes him an easy target for non-fans to slag him off (always to those of us who do like him). The thing is his voice could sound soft and pleasant on some recordings. I'm thinking of examples like Tomorrow is a Long Time, Lay Lady Lay etc. He didn't have to sound tuneless and toneless.

And while his songwriting got more obtuse during the 60s his lucid simpler lyrics always worked really well for me. Songs like The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll and Boots if Spanish Leather and If You See Her Say Hello can still bring a lump to my throat.

« Last Edit: August 30, 2014, 10:09:11 AM by Moogmodule »
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oldbrownshoe

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Re: Bob Dylan!
« Reply #502 on: August 30, 2014, 07:41:17 AM »

I think the clever money on Bob is to:
(a) avoid anything he made after the 60s (OK, apart from 'Blood On The Tracks' if you must, but purely as the exception to the rule),
(b) avoid and disregard 99% of the literature written about him,
(c) see him as a pop star more than a sage, and,
(d) never, but never, ever, shell out far too much money to see him live (but then that applies to virtually everyone in 2014). The time to see him live was from 1961 to 1966. Even the Isle of Wight in 1969 is, alas, too late.

I do, however, find it strange that Beatles fans can be so ambivalent towards him.
The Beatles are Bob Dylan, Bob Dylan is The Beatles.

If you like 'Paperback Writer' how on earth can you dislike 'Can You Please Crawl Out Your Window'?
There's barely a cigarette paper between the two!
'For No One' - 'To Ramona' / 'I Threw It All Away' - 'Something' / 'Rain' - 'Maggie's Farm' etc. etc.

Some of the Dylan songs sound like Dylan songs, some of the Beatles songs sound like Dylan songs!
They were the same age, they were breathing the same air.
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Moogmodule

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Re: Bob Dylan!
« Reply #503 on: August 30, 2014, 10:27:54 AM »

I think the clever money on Bob is to:
(a) avoid anything he made after the 60s (OK, apart from 'Blood On The Tracks' if you must, but purely as the exception to the rule),


Have to stop you there OBS. Bob's recent Christmas album is an annual fav with me. How can you not love Bob croaking out Oh Come All ye Faithful. With a Latin verse no less.
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In My Life

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Re: Bob Dylan!
« Reply #504 on: August 30, 2014, 06:02:47 PM »

My attitude towards Bob Dylan has always been full of contradictions, just like the man himself. But now I'm at the point where I just take him on a song by song basis. Some of his work resonates with me on a level that's powerful enough to allow me to overlook the things that make me think "Seriously Bob?".
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Mr Mustard

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Re: Bob Dylan!
« Reply #505 on: August 30, 2014, 08:10:51 PM »



I do, however, find it strange that Beatles fans can be so ambivalent towards him.
The Beatles are Bob Dylan, Bob Dylan is The Beatles.


With respect OBS, that is nonsense. Dylan is no more The Beatles than Monty Python are. All are contemporaries who grew up at the same time and are (irritatingly) frequently lumped together by commentators who should know better... but in stark terms of output/product, they are nothing like each other. The Beatles dallied with a Dylanesque influence but they're no more like him than they are like The Shirelles and they are vastly (yes, vastly) better than either.

No "ambivalence" from THIS Beatles fan towards Bob... I think he is very overrated, though his influence (including on the fabs) is undeniable. Chuck Berry had a massive influence on the proto-Beatles but for what it's worth I think he's very overrated too. But that's just my opinion, there is no definitive "right" or "wrong" here, although I do get a bit irked when people learn I'm a big Beatles fan and assume I therefore surely also really like Dylan (which kind of bolsters your assertion, come to think of it!) But I know a number of Dylan fans who respect but dislike The Beatles, and several Beatles fans who acknowledge but don't care for Bob.

Paul actually WAS a Beatle, which Bob will never be, so I'm firmly in the school of Wings being far more relevant in "Beatle" terms than Dylan or Brian Wilson or any of the rest are. I know you kind of mentally "ring fence" the sixties and so link them as an entity to their contemporaries, and I respect that. But for me they were John, Paul, George, Ringo + that intangible magic - OK, that magical "something" evaporated when they went their separate ways but a vestige of "Beatleyness" remained in each of them forever after. I'd play "Ringo's Rotogravure" in preference to "Blonde On Blonde" every time (seriously).


If you like 'Paperback Writer' how on earth can you dislike 'Can You Please Crawl Out Your Window'?

Very easily! The first is irresistible and expertly sung with fast, jangly guitars & drums. The second is much more reminiscent of a Paul Simon type number, with a more plodding rhythm and (I'm going to have to say it) badly sung. I could be kind and call Bob's vocals an idiosyncratic/acquired taste but I'd be pandering to the Emperor's clothes mentality which holds him in such awe, but for me, he's a lousy singer, simple as that. And one of THE greatest things about The Beatles was their emphasis on vocals, and their accessibility. Bob is very hard work; they never were.

If I had to sum up the big difference between them I'd say The Beatles were very charismatic whereas Dylan was very enigmatic. They were at least his equal in terms of influence and "credibility", but they also had a string of number one hits to their CV and an easy to love aura about them; Bob had neither, even though I accept he couldn't care less.
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Kevin

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Re: Bob Dylan!
« Reply #506 on: August 31, 2014, 01:28:57 PM »

I can see the big attraction to mid sixties Dylan. He's a punk on a street corner with his guitar, snarling at the world. How many kids heard him and thought I cando that! That Dylan showed you didn't need a "good" voice or be technically proficient at your instrument is a revelation. His impact upon popular music is, as with The Beatles and Elvis, beyond measure.
I can see why Beatle fans don't like him. There's no jangling guitar or sweet harmonies, and his lyrics can be a little inaccessible. But over-rated! Dylan! I cannot agree.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 07:24:19 PM by Kevin »
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Ovi

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Re: Bob Dylan!
« Reply #507 on: September 03, 2014, 04:48:10 AM »

I think the clever money on Bob is to:
(a) avoid anything he made after the 60s (OK, apart from 'Blood On The Tracks' if you must, but purely as the exception to the rule),

Now that's just nonsense. Everybody knows Bob Dylan sold out in '65 at Newport when he went electric. Everything he's made after Another Side of Bob Dylan is rubbish. Avoid!
« Last Edit: September 03, 2014, 04:50:13 AM by Ovi »
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oldbrownshoe

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Re: Bob Dylan!
« Reply #508 on: September 04, 2014, 11:31:21 AM »

Mr. Mustard, if The Beatles had disregarded (the over-rated!!!) Chuck Berry et al in such a cavalier way they'd not have been Bob Dylan, which they undoubtedly and thankfully are.....they'd have been Doris Day!
 
Also, Monty Python (1969) ARE the Beatles (Magical Mystery Tour - 1967).
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Mr Mustard

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Re: Bob Dylan!
« Reply #509 on: September 04, 2014, 10:17:19 PM »

Mr. Mustard, if The Beatles had disregarded (the over-rated!!!) Chuck Berry et al in such a cavalier way they'd not have been Bob Dylan, which they undoubtedly and thankfully are.....they'd have been Doris Day!
 
Also, Monty Python (1969) ARE the Beatles (Magical Mystery Tour - 1967).

I wasn't being cavalier about Chuck...I just don't think he was as impressive as the "et al" - that is to say, some of the other influences they drew from. But then, I don't have to love everyone they loved, right? I never knew quite what they saw in Carl Perkins, who to my mind couldn't hold a candle to the great Johnny Cash - yet Cash seems to have had zero influence on The Beatles.

And now for something completely different....

Python were never The Beatles, but I'll concede that MMT proves they were The Bonzo Dog Doo Dah Band (remember the stripper scene? Eh? nudge nudge wink wink say no more!) ;)
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oldbrownshoe

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Re: Bob Dylan!
« Reply #510 on: September 05, 2014, 05:15:44 AM »

I'm with George, I'd have Carl over Johnny Cash.
He's rock 'n' roll, Johnny Cash is more country.

My point is simply that without the 60s, 90% of the point or the impact of the Beatles is gone and their music is given a dis-service.
Music in 2014 seems to exist in a bubble (i.e. (lack of!)-talent shows; and I don't hear many anti-war records despite this being the most 'war' decade since the 1940s) so why relegate the Beatles to less interesting and questioning eras?

Hence, a legendary glut of 1967 recordings by a contemporary IS considerably more important a release to our (OK, mine maybe not yours) enjoyment and understanding of them than a couple of ho-hum Paul LPs from the mid-1970s or, wait for it, even 'Ringo Roto.....'.....erm.....that Ringo album you mentioned!

Anyway, back to the Dylan thread.....even as a staunch anti-box set buyer, I'll be buying it, and it seems that, just like Mark Lewisohn's book, the price is falling as I write - £101 at the last look.
Hopefully by November it'll be a more manageable £80-ish.
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pc31

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Re: Bob Dylan!
« Reply #511 on: September 13, 2014, 03:30:45 AM »

dlyan is an oppertunistic...i hate that nasal twang of his.....he made a good wilbury....but the f*** got paid for bangledesh.....he also i heard use to carry paper and pencil to wood guthries death bed...this land is your land this land is my land...i dont see bob as a milestone....i am sorry and hes as ugly as neil young....i have heard look what they done to my song was about bob collecting material illegal like....dylan has many fans and non fans...imma nonfan.....i just dont like the man personally or musically...he knows some decent people...color me done....anyone wanna buy a positivelry fouth street 45 with a sleeve?rare dylan worth money....i am tempted to shoot it....i think todd likes dylan...and dirk said he would eat the corn outta his sh*t... 4ac

oldbrownshoe

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Re: Bob Dylan!
« Reply #512 on: October 30, 2014, 03:47:20 PM »

.....erm.....maybe £100 is too much!

I don't like box sets (I only own one) and I'm getting decidedly cold feet over passing over £100 when there are a glut of tasty re-releases around the corner such as The Doors' 'Feast of Friends' DVD (£13).
It doesn't help that the forthcoming Velvet Underground box with the same number of CDs is pitched at £49.

So.....hmmm.....I might just get the 38-track, £15 version on Monday.

I wonder if Paul is getting the full monty or the 2-cd version? Full monty, I reckon.
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oldbrownshoe

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Re: Bob Dylan!
« Reply #513 on: November 04, 2014, 07:42:26 AM »

Pity that when I went in HMV they should be playing some awful Stones' concert from god-knows when on the same day that a piece of genuine history was first officially released. Probably should have gone in earlier.

Opted for the £15 job (hey! there's now a compilation CD of Sly Stone's record label in the late 60s to also consider!).

Anyone else getting it?
Funny, but on first listen (very favourable, it's 'The Bl***in' Basement Tapes'!) it makes me want to listen to pre-war blues, presumably Dylan's original intention?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
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oldbrownshoe

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Re: Bob Dylan!
« Reply #514 on: November 05, 2014, 10:27:42 AM »

Reading some of the comments on Amazon, pretty much most of the negative comments are (rightly) reserved for the expensive 6-CD set.

I also sense that some of the more entrenched Dylanologists (yikes, wouldn't want to get stuck in a lift with one) are treating it all in a bit of a 'seen it all before' sort of way.

Personally, I'm pleased that I didn't buy the various bootlegs over the years or labour too long over the 1975 double-LP as, just like 'Smile' in 2011 and 'Live at the BBC' in 2013, these are to all intents and purposes 'NEW' fresh albums.

Bob probably writes about something similar somewhere on 'The Basement Tapes', but sometimes it is better to be a tortoise rather than a hare.   

What next?
The Glyn Johns' mix of 'Get Back' next November would be nice.
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