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Author Topic: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road  (Read 6899 times)

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Klang

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2007, 01:27:10 AM »


A tiny bit off topic here, perhaps, but 'Tomorrow Never Knows' seems faintly reminiscent of Ray's 'See My Friends', which came out first and was penned while visiting India. My whacky ear at it again, I suppose.

 :)

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2007, 02:21:15 AM »

Quote from: 373





 Paul pleaded for the band to make this last ditch effort and its not hard to see that he did the majority of the work here. 'Old Times' my ass.


I just took another gander at Anthology (DVD) and when they got to the section about the A. R. album, GEORGE f****** MARTIN HIMSELF says "it was a very happy album to make, that's why I'm very fond of it".

Ringo echoed those sentiments in that same Anthology segment.



your contention that John had "crawled so far up Yoko's ******" doesn't prove in the least a lesser degree of inspiration. If anything, a John Lennon in love was an even MORE inspired artist whether he felt constricted at that time in the Beatles or not...OR whether they recorded the songs separately...

Come Together, Polythene Pam, She's So Heavy, Mean Mr. Mustard, his perfect singing parts in Sun King & Because are fervent efforts, not musings of artistic discontent.


if John was so "uninspired" than why did he state several times in subsequent years that "Come Together" was one of his best songs ? The word-play is CLASSIC Lennon. Just because he was planning to depart the band around this time doesnt mean he wanted his final works to sound like crap. His contributions to A. R. is certifiable proof of the contrary. Many ppl would agree.
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tkitna

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2007, 04:46:52 AM »

Quote from: 829

I just took another gander at Anthology (DVD) and when they got to the section about the A. R. album, GEORGE f****** MARTIN HIMSELF says "it was a very happy album to make, that's why I'm very fond of it".

What does that quote have to do with anything? So they were getting along better, that accounts for it being like 'Old Times'? They still werent collaborating on every tune together like they used to. It also doesnt break down who did the majority of the work. Did you ever stop to think that 'very happy' might have meant that John put up with Pauls taskmaster ways just to get this album out? Wasnt this album being made when Allan Klein had f***ed everything up and the Beatles were bitter with each other about legal matters? Remember when Paul didnt sign the contract for Klein, but still participated in the band functions? Again, 'old times' my ass.

Quote
if John was so "uninspired" than why did he state several times in subsequent years that "Come Together" was one of his best songs ?

Because he's weird. This coming from the same guy who gave us 'Two Virgins', 'Life With The Lions', and 'The Wedding Album'. Sorry, not a big fan of 'Come Together'.

Quote
The word-play is CLASSIC Lennon. Just because he was planning to depart the band around this time doesnt mean he wanted his final works to sound like crap. His contributions to A. R. is certifiable proof of the contrary. Many ppl would agree.

I've given you my opinions on his contributions. Although they are my opinions, i'm sure many people would agree with them also.

Its obvious we dont see eye to eye about this and thats fine. I'm just stating that I feel Paul had much more input into this album than the rest of them. It might just be me, but thats how I feel. Also, I didnt mean that John was alright with his working sounding like crap. We know better than that. I just meant that if he was so into it, he could have at least finished most of the tunes instead of just giving us three or so snippets like he did.



tkitna

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2007, 05:02:10 AM »

This coming from the same guy who gave us 'Two Virgins', 'Life With The Lions', and 'The Wedding Album'.

Quote
those are the worst pieces of junk Lennon ever "recorded" (or screamed, moaned his way through)

but that's POST Beatles. John was very melodic and poetic in his Beatle stuff.


Theres were recorded in 68'/69'

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2007, 05:02:50 AM »

Quote from: 373




You:  "Because he's weird."

Me: "subjective...which is ok, but still subjective."



 You: 'This coming from the same guy who gave us 'Two Virgins', 'Life With The Lions', and 'The Wedding Album'."

Me: "I happen to agree w/ that last comment those are the worst pieces of junk Lennon ever "recorded" (or screamed, moaned his way through)

but that's POST Beatles. John was very melodic and poetic in his Beatle stuff."



You:  "I've given you my opinions on his contributions. Although they are my opinions, i'm sure many people would agree with them also."

Me: "true".

You: "Its obvious we dont see eye to eye about this and thats fine. I'm just stating that I feel Paul had much more input into this album than the rest of them. It might just be me, but thats how I feel."




Me: "fair enough. Agree to disagree"

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tkitna

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2007, 05:14:42 AM »

This coming from the same guy who gave us 'Two Virgins', 'Life With The Lions', and 'The Wedding Album'.

Quote
those are the worst pieces of junk Lennon ever "recorded" (or screamed, moaned his way through)

but that's POST Beatles. John was very melodic and poetic in his Beatle stuff.


These were recorded in 68'/69'

fendertele

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2007, 11:27:02 PM »

nobody get the feeling that depending on maccas mood during recording that it would play a big part on the whole general mood ? it seems how controlling or picky or obsessive he was over how it should sound would rub of more on the other guys? more so than anything john and yoko were up to,.
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Bobber

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2007, 06:42:09 AM »

If it wasn't for Paul's input, there would never have been an Abbey Road.
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fendertele

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2007, 08:43:18 AM »

yeah i know paul was the driving force, i just meant the atmosphere surrounding the recording, before paul became the unofficial leader of the band there seem to be a little less tension, as john was acknowledge leader but wasnt as bossy or pushy as paul in the later years, so that also gave paul less to get frustrated or bossy about as it wasnt his place and in turn led to a happier george and ringo not getting pushed and told  what to play and how as much ?
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Kevin

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2007, 11:11:32 AM »

Quote from: 758
yeah i know paul was the driving force, i just meant the atmosphere surrounding the recording, before paul became the unofficial leader of the band there seem to be a little less tension, as john was acknowledge leader but wasnt as bossy or pushy as paul in the later years, so that also gave paul less to get frustrated or bossy about as it wasnt his place and in turn led to a happier george and ringo not getting pushed and told  what to play and how as much ?

Sorry - I think that's wrong.
Up to 1966 they were busy touring and had to squeeze in recording dates. They were hardworking and highly motivated. I don't see John as a leader 62-66 anymore than Paul. They went into the studio knowing what sort of music they would make and what (very tight) deadlines they had to meet. If there was less tension then it was because the band had direction and purpose, from themselves, Martin and Epstein. There wasn't less tension then because John was a better leader, but because neither of them were leaders. They didn't need a band member to be one.

By the time of Abbey Road there was a vaccuum. Someone had to step up to the plate and take the lead, and it was Paul. It wasn't that John was "less bossy or pushy." Imagine John had decided to assert himself in 68 - you don't think his poltical vision, his desire to include Yoko, and his general way with people wouldn't have caused some stress and tension amongst that same group of people whose relationships were already fractured?

John never put himself in the position where he had to direct and motivate a bunch of dispirited, bored, antagonistic men. And when he could have he bottled it.
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fendertele

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2007, 12:49:23 PM »

^^^^ good point
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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2007, 08:10:20 PM »

Quote from: 373
This coming from the same guy who gave us 'Two Virgins', 'Life With The Lions', and 'The Wedding Album'.

 

These were recorded in 68'/69'

you're correct, I meant extraneous-Beatles. Just like "How I Won The War", when John trapsed off to film that during the fab years also--or when Harrison made Wonderwall music as a side project as the first "Zapple" release, the relative artistic "worth" of a given piece is purely in the eye of the beholder.

*ALSO* I must confess John's early releases w/ Yoko I agree, should've never seen the light of day. I think Lennon  assumed the world would accept his experimental period w/ no resistance. They were atrocious works (endless heartbeat sounds plus the incessant "John?".."Yoko?" phrase over and over again.) This kind of "avant garde" should be visual rather than audio IMHO (many ppl were also opposed to his non-musical statements such as "Bagism"- which I thought was a fantastic way to call attention to the carnage in Vietnam. As far as the titles you cited above, I had all these albums at one time, but as I look back, I don't know why I purchased them (probably because of the historical (as opposed to aesthetic value of of the "Two Virgins" cover-which I bought off a friend who "couldn't bare to look  at John's c*ck another second", as he put it back in the early 70's.  But I do believe his true post-Beatle output (especially the first two LPs (P.O.B. and Imagine show great inspiration and brilliance--a brilliance I believe (unlike yourself) was present even in his A.R. material as well---but yes, I take your point, opinions can differ, which is perfectly ok.

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Andy Smith

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2007, 10:04:49 PM »

I really don't think Lennon was inspired by the Kinks.
He never said anything & never really took notice of
much of a lot of the music scene during that time i reckon.
I think he just loved writing silly litttle ditty's!
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retrocool73

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #33 on: October 27, 2008, 11:01:12 PM »

I can see the comparison with the ditties from the medley - but Come Together, I Want You & Because are a totally different kettle of fish. All 3 are examples of why the Beatles were good for each other and why the split was wrong on so many levels. Would these three songs have been as great if they had been recorded by the Plastic Ono Band or Lennon solo? The arrangement of Because was a George Martin triumph, and Come Together & I Want You work so well because they are so very clearly loving what they are playing and each member added something vital to the mix with both songs representing high points for both Starr as a drummer & Macca as a bassist
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Mairi

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #34 on: November 24, 2008, 09:29:20 PM »

I think John was mainly inspired by heroin and Yoko during this period.
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tkitna

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2008, 04:47:07 AM »

Quote from: 218
I think John was mainly inspired by heroin and Yoko during this period.

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Bobber

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2008, 09:27:41 AM »

Quote from: 218
I think John was mainly inspired by heroin and Yoko during this period.

And Chuck Berry of course. He almost stole Come Together!  :P
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Bill Harry

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2008, 04:11:04 PM »

John was always trying to tap an altered state of consciousness to achieve creative thinking. It began with beer. Then on to the Vick inhaler strip that Royston Ellis introduced us too. Then on to Captogen and Preludin, then Transcendental Meditation, then LSD, then Primal Scream etc
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NoNameR

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2008, 05:42:09 PM »

"I really don't think Lennon was inspired by the Kinks.
He never said anything & never really took notice of"

He was supposed to be quite a fan of the Kinks' flop 'Wonderboy' single. The sweet thing is that knowing Lennon was a fan made Ray Davies not care that Wonderboy had been such a flop!
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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #39 on: November 26, 2008, 07:21:24 PM »

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John was always trying to tap an altered state of consciousness to achieve creative thinking. It began with beer. Then on to the Vick inhaler strip that Royston Ellis introduced us too. Then on to Captogen and Preludin, then Transcendental Meditation, then LSD, then Primal Scream etc
you forgot the pot bill.....so then mushrooms where never a thing????

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