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Author Topic: Anti-Americans  (Read 13932 times)

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harihead

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #80 on: November 17, 2007, 05:41:31 PM »

This little jewel might be appropriate to our discussion:

Bush Blair - Endless Love



Sandra, I by no means use the parallel with Hitler lightly. What is happening in this country is chilling. I suggest you look a little more closely at what Congress is doing. Look at their tactics (such as passing bills at midnight on a Friday to minimize media exposure), the type of bills they pass and the ones they let fail. Step #1 is to get informed.  

Dr. Lawrence Britt has done a well-regarded study of the growth of fascism in America. This link covers his 14 characteristics common to the fascist regimes of Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Suharto, and Pinochet. It includes links to articles supporting each of his contentions: http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm

There's a lot of links here, but you should read up on what the so-called Patriot Act did to our civil liberties. I'd start with the Analysis section: http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/USAPA.html
This article does a nice summary of this trend starting back in 1996: http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/theOtherWar.html

My sister, by the way, is on the front lines of the "War on Terror"--trying to anticipate biochemical warfare. In her direct experience, this Act made her job worse. It requires tons of paperwork instead of the practical procedures, which she'd been busy implementing before the Act passed. (Remember how the new Homeland Security rules fouled-up Katrina rescue efforts.) All her suggestions of direct ways our food, water, and public health could be at risk of terrorist attack have yet to be acted upon years after she identified them. Is our government serious about keeping us safe?

There's also this, just released yesterday: "The Evangelical Christian Takeover of the Military" http://www.alternet.org/asoldierspeaks/67385/?page=1 - a well-written heartfelt article by a retired Lt. Col. This isn't hype or hysteria. Check out this paragraph, about what our own Congress did:

"the House of Representatives, with little public notice, passed a chilling bill that undermines enforcement of the First Amendment's separation of church and state. The Public Expression of Religion Act, H.R. 2679, provides that attorneys who successfully challenge government actions that violate the establishment clause of the First Amendment shall not be entitled to recover attorney's fees. According to The Washington Post, the purpose of this bill is to prevent suits challenging unconstitutional government actions advancing religion."


These are all verifiable facts. The deal is, we're being told that everything is okay, we're the best, we're #1, etc. etc. and the country that we grew up in is becoming increasingly corrupt. We're going to be in a world of hurt if we don't demand accountable behavior from our elected representatives.
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Sondra

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #81 on: November 17, 2007, 10:34:19 PM »

Actually, I think Step One would be to get informed by individuals who do not already have some sort of agenda. Or to be informed by a variety of sources that speak to both sides of an issue. But that's just me. I can most definitely find hundreds of sources backing up or discounting everything that you say. Getting informed is a tricky business. Do it well. Reading alarmist literature probably isn't the best way.

I don't discount that this administration has major issues. I've done criticizing myself. I'm not hiding my head in the sand as most of America isn't either. There is a general unhappiness and unrest going on in this country. Doesn't that say anything to you? People are not stupid. They know more of what's going on than you give them credit for.

As for Dr. Britt. While his list is interesting, its also very superficial. If you want to see the real gap between this government and an actual fascist government, do some real research. But then I'm not about to sit here and needlessly try to refute liberal fundamentalist dogma just as I wouldn't waste my time trying to pick apart what's wrong with right wing fundamentalist extremist beliefs. Could you post something pertaining to the background of Dr. Britt? I'm not finding much about him.

I said I understood people's issues with this county when I started this thread. I also said I wasn't annoyed because of peoples issues with the politics of this country, yet the massive generalizations against its people. But that's besides the point. Anyway, I choose not to harp on how disgusting this country is because, well for one thing, it's not horrible to live in, the majority of people in it want change, and I know its potential to be great. We're coming into an election year and I'd rather hope and work for change than hold onto the notion that we're becoming the Fourth Reich.

Every government has its corruptions. If you think we are any different from any other powerful government now or through the ages then you are deluding yourself. To constantly say you're ashamed to live here or that it's terrible to live here right now is not indicative of how most Americans really feel. Be proud that your actions can actually bring about change. Yes, it's easier said than done, but at least it can be done. Get out and spread the word on your favorite candidate before another one gets in that you think will continue to lead this country, with all its sheep into the throws of a fascist dictatorship.
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harihead

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #82 on: November 18, 2007, 02:08:58 AM »

Thank you for the basic primer on intelligent research. I think I can grasp the basics.

I have been actively involved in the last 2 elections, campaigning by phone and on foot, door to door. I'm not just sitting around complaining, I'm actively involved. If you are too, good for you!
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All you've got to do is choose love.  That's how I live it now.  I learned a long time ago, I can feed the birds in my garden.  I can't feed them all. -- Ringo Starr, Rolling Stone magazine, May 2007<br />

Sondra

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #83 on: November 18, 2007, 04:14:39 AM »

Well I didn't mean to annoy you or anything. It's just that if you post strong statements you should expect strong reactions to those statements. I'm only expressing how I see things. If I did it in a way that was less than nice, I apologize. My friends and I getter rather heated when we debate, but it's all for the good. No harm intended. I do think it's rather short sighted to compare Bush to Hitler on any level though and it does tend to get to me. As does the implicaton that our country is headed toward fascism. I'm just weary of this kind of thinking in this day and age. With all the information available to us and with all the resources at our fingertips I think it's rather insulting to say that the American people are going to be that easily duped. But again, that is MY opinion. I could very well be way wrong. I'm just debating here is all. Again, sorry if you were offended.

I do find the American youth a little scary though. I mean, the trend of self absorption due to technology is disturbing. So if that's our future, then who knows what's in store.
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adamzero

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #84 on: November 20, 2007, 01:40:03 AM »

I think Kevin's on to something about the historical reaction to Bush 100 years from now.  Even if you disagree with the Neo-Cons they've been able to map out their view of history that we'll be dealing with for the next 100 years.  But they weren't stupid.  The point may not have been to "win" the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan.  It was to be able to deploy hundreds of thousands of troops surrounding Iran, on the border with Syria (surrounding it with Israel) and at China's back door.  If Asia is the future, the U.S. Empire has its foot firmly planted on the continent (in much more strategic areas than Vietnam).  

Of course the U.S. Empire has simply cribbed the playbook of the British Empire and is doing the bidding of the international money/commodities cartels that run the planet.  

That's what makes me so mad about Dylan doing that damned Cadillac Escalade ad!  Our only freedom is weaning ourselves as a nation from foreign credit and oil (and the Escalade, though made in the US, represents everything that's wrong with our gashog, look-how-big-my-car-is culture).  Shame on you, Bob!   Masters of War, my ass!
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Kevin

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #85 on: November 20, 2007, 12:45:29 PM »

Bang on Adamzero. Invade the neighbours and surround Iran, force it into a conflict and  arms race it has no hope of winning, decry them as agressors for doing so and invade. There is a beauty to it.
And lets not forget the endless benefits to Isreal. Now it's no longer an Israeli-Palenstine issue, it's "A War On Terror" and the gloves are off.

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pc31

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #86 on: November 22, 2007, 01:57:53 AM »

all this corrupt politics gab is getting me excited.....i love the passion and convictions played out at this forum...the variety of countries and politics are a grace...we share information and opinions with out true aggession towards one another(well most times)lol...no other forums i visit has such a cross section of people interacting...consider us lucky....
tomorrow is thanksgiving day...i never really understood this day to be frank...what are the indians thankful for??????i am kidding no debates on that front please....
the truth is american is letting the politicians f*** us out of our rights and we need to nip this ticking time bomb in the butt,so my kids can live in a better not bitter world...i tend to group,like we were taught,group similar things together but on a personal level i make my mind up on individuals not groups....

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #87 on: December 03, 2007, 10:10:09 PM »

Quote from: 56

True. I once heard Bill O'Reilly say on TV that a lot of thing are going the wrong way in America and that if they wouldn't be careful, "America could end up just like The Netherlands". I was very insulted when I heard that.

O'Reilly is a right-wing conservative alarmist (and I'm being nice) He hates and fears all thing Liberal. Many Americans cant stand the guy--I count myself among them. Dont fool yourself into thinking he's the mouthpiece of a nation (or for that matter, any of the other Stormtroopers on FoxNews) We know him for what he truly is : a self-promoting, intellectual thug and George Bush defender.

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alexis

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #88 on: December 10, 2007, 11:50:29 PM »

It's all money. If O'Reilly could have made more money (plus its equivalent in bling and babes, I'm sure) selling the Democratic product, he would have done so.

It's all money. The Republican agenda is to put more money in the hands of the very rich, at the expense of the not very rich (the middle class in the USA is on the way to rapidly becoming of historical interest only). The Democrats at this point know they are against this, but they really don't know much else about themselves or what they stand for. But hey, it's a start.

It's all money.

Signed,

Harihead's favorite politician cum business executive
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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #89 on: September 08, 2008, 08:26:25 PM »

This is from an e-mail I got from my uncle (I obviously translated it though) during his trip through the US (he hired a winnebago and drove from SF to NY).

Quote
We really learned to appreciate Americans these past few weeks. They're very friendly and helpful people and always in for a conversation.

Last Saturday we were in the middle of Memphis and ended up on the wrong side of the road. I had to turn the winnebago in the middle of the road, which took quite a while. But nobody honked, nobody gave me ugly looks, nobody gave me the finger... The only fingers I got were thumbs up when I finally managed to turn the damn thing in the right direction.

I just thought it would be nice if someone posted anything positive about Americans for a change...  ;)
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fendertele

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #90 on: September 08, 2008, 09:08:31 PM »

Yeah from what ive seen, there humour is spot on and the general mood, and most of them are happy to talk too you, which in contrast to scotlands, if you look at someone its " who you looking at " or if you say hello to someone or say anything nice to them you get stupid comments like " are you gay " just for saying awright to another guy  :-/.

Also the irish are lovely people i used to go to ireland and be amazed at the amount of people out walking the streets at night without a care in the world,  walking down the road every car honked there horn when they passed and also strangers would say good morning and hello when you passed them.
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Jane

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #91 on: September 08, 2008, 09:37:40 PM »

I also agree that Americans are very friendly people. When I was in the USA, everywhere I asked for help (in a bookshop, in the street, at the library) all the people were willing to help. The funny thing was that young men took pains to demonstrate that they meant only help and nothing but help. That was very amusing to me, I wanted to tell them, Relax, guys, I`m not gonna shout!
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Geoff

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #92 on: September 10, 2008, 01:01:50 PM »

Quote from: 56
I just thought it would be nice if someone posted anything positive about Americans for a change...  ;)

I think people often inflate a straightforward dislike of particular American policies or administrations into a generalized contempt for America as a whole. It's cheap and easy to do, and will earn you some cachet from leftists and (pseudo) intellectuals, including American ones. But I've lived in America off and on many times over the past twenty years, and Americans as a whole do not conform to the cliches put out about them any more than the citizens of other countries fit the commonplaces circulating about them. Anti-Americanism is just simple resentment or political populism (usually self-servingly opportunistic) masquerading as moral superiority.

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The Dude

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #93 on: September 15, 2008, 10:06:41 AM »

I've been to the States twice, once to Orlando and once to Vegas. I don't have any problems with American people (except the ones who ask me if I know a friend of theirs in London, 180 miles away from me and believe me, that's happened!) as I've always been treated with respect whilst holidaying.

Among my friends and acquanitances though, America isn't a popular country. There is a lot of anti-American sentiment in the UK, most Brits believe that waging war is America's way of learning geography. I don't tend to subscribe to that theory as I believe that a country's people shouldn't be held responsible for the decisions its government makes.
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Bobber

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #94 on: September 15, 2008, 10:14:27 AM »

Quote from: 1575
I believe that a country's people shouldn't be held responsible for the decisions its government makes.

That's a debatable statement. Certainly if that particular country has democracy is its main religion.
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BlueMeanie

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #95 on: September 15, 2008, 10:21:56 AM »

Quote from: 63

That's a debatable statement. Certainly if that particular country has democracy is its main religion.

Well, that depends on whether it's governing body sticks to the policies that got it elected in the first place.
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Bobber

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #96 on: September 15, 2008, 10:27:09 AM »

Quote from: 483

Well, that depends on whether it's governing body sticks to the policies that got it elected in the first place.

See. I told you it was debatable.  ;D
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pc31

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #97 on: September 15, 2008, 10:46:39 AM »

well i wanna just say they are living in a stolen country from the get go...americans came from everywheres else...i bet noone else can boast that!!!
the policies were meant for the strong willed and healthy minded people in the dawning of the country but some how greed and power reshaped us....all i can say is stop the boat i want to get off....

BlueMeanie

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #98 on: September 15, 2008, 10:55:50 AM »

Quote from: 284
well i wanna just say they are living in a stolen country from the get go...americans came from everywheres else...i bet noone else can boast that!!!

Possibly Australians?
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pc31

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #99 on: September 15, 2008, 11:08:05 AM »

point well taken but i would say many aussies had no choice in the matter unlike here..... :X
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