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Author Topic: The New Mark Lewisohn Books  (Read 15193 times)

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fanofthefab4

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Re: The New Mark Lewisohn Books
« Reply #140 on: June 01, 2014, 11:09:42 AM »

Im very taken with this book..

I now want the extended version to read the whole thing again (and more)

The Beatles have been my main musical passion since I was 11 and thought Ive never thought much of previous books that have been written (and even poured scorn on them) I have to admit that Mark Lewisohn is THE man when it comes to The Beatles.
He is on a different planet to the other celebrated authors.

The whole intricate story of how they came to be is here, the metamorphosis from hard nosed scruffy rockers to clean well dressed little girls boy band.....the angst of all that for Lennon the rebel, but the overriding desire for fame and fortune, its a great story, a fantastic story.

A great film maybe ?  (a huge project in 3 parts).... maybe the McCartney children and grandchildren will end up richer than Paul

Meanwhile, all hail Mark - another genius in the Beatle story.

Hi everyone,

I haven't been on here for a couple of years,well I mean I haven't posted on here since then but I have still read the forums every now and then.One thing I really hate and don't want to do at all is argue with fellow Beatles fans.But I have to say the surprising puzzling  ??? :ocomment you made about how The Beatles metamorphosis from hard nosed scruffy rockers to clean well dressed little girls ''boy band'',is totally untrue! It doesn't matter that Brian Epstein created their fake joke cleaned up image,The Beatles were *never* a true ''boy band'' not even for a half of a second,they didn't even play one on TV.They were still a great rock n roll and pop rock band.

Many people have rightfully correctly pointed out that The Monkees were the first true boy band because even though they were all musical,they weren't playing together since they were teenagers like John 16 with Paul 15 and George 14,and then working their a*ses of playing 8 hours a night in the sleazy strip clubs of Hamburg for 2 years having to take speed pilss to stay awake to do it,and then playing successfuly also at The Cavern club for several years.The Monkees were hired as actors specifically to play a pop rock band for their TV show,not that they weren't good.

But as a poster ReverendRock who is a reverend,rock musician and a big Beatles fan so accurately pointed out on a classic rock site over 10 years ago,that anyone who knows The Beatles history knows it's totally ludicrous to even suggest such a thing!

And The Beatles wrote many very good and great rock n roll songs and ironically were the most wild during their fake cleaned up image while they were touring from 1963-1966,going to bed with *tons* of young women groupies,many who were under age teen girls.

And also John and Paul as I'm sure most fans on here already know,wrote one of The Rolling Stones first hits the rock n roll song I Wanna Be You're Man in 1963 and they wrote it right in front of keith Richards and Mick Jagger who were really impressed that they could just write a hit song just like that,and it inspired them to start writing their own songs and it began the years of friendship between the two groups.

Also John and Paul were already writing hits for other music artists as early as 1963 just when their own song writing success was taking off.And Paul was writing songs before John,a year before he met him, when he was only 14(and he became obsessed with playing the guitar then too) after his beloved intelligent,pretty and kind nurse mid wife mother Mary died quickly from breast cancer when Paul was only 14 and his brother only 12.

John had been writing heavy poetry but had never put it to music until he met Paul and was really impressed that he was already writing his own songs and this inspired John to start writing his own soon after and of course we all know they thankfully never stopped.


And also this is how so many ignorant Beatles haters also inaccurately misperceive them and wrongly disparage them and dismiss them as a ''boy band''.And they were a brilliant,creative,diverse,prolfic rock band,the most ever.True boy bands should be dismissed,looked down on,and hated as uncool,not rocking,and untalented! And boy bands aren't good musicians and The Beatles were all very good musicians in fact most boy bands don't even play their own instruments and write their own songs.

And as many people,The All Music Guide and many  well known respected successful rock and other music artists  including Bob Dylan have rightfully said that Paul and John were among the two greatest singers in rock both with great voices.And Brian Wilson,Elton John,classical composer Leonard Bernstein and many others have also rightfully called Paul and John the greatest song writers of the 20th century.

Im very taken with this book..

I now want the extended version to read the whole thing again (and more)

The Beatles have been my main musical passion since I was 11 and thought Ive never thought much of previous books that have been written (and even poured scorn on them) I have to admit that Mark Lewisohn is THE man when it comes to The Beatles.
He is on a different planet to the other celebrated authors.

The whole intricate story of how they came to be is here, the metamorphosis from hard nosed scruffy rockers to clean well dressed little girls boy band.....the angst of all that for Lennon the rebel, but the overriding desire for fame and fortune, its a great story, a fantastic story.

A great film maybe ?  (a huge project in 3 parts).... maybe the McCartney children and grandchildren will end up richer than Paul

Meanwhile, all hail Mark - another genius in the Beatle story.

Hi everyone,

I haven't been on here for a couple of years,well I mean I haven't posted on here since then but I have still read the forums every now and then.One thing I really hate and don't want to do at all is argue with fellow Beatles fans.But I have to say the surprising puzzling  ??? :ocomment you made about how The Beatles metamorphosis from hard nosed scruffy rockers to clean well dressed little girls ''boy band'',is totally untrue! It doesn't matter that Brian Epstein created their fake joke cleaned up image,The Beatles were *never* a true ''boy band'' not even for a half of a second,they didn't even play one on TV.They were still a great rock n roll and pop rock band.

Many people have rightfully correctly pointed out that The Monkees were the first true boy band because even though they were all musical,they weren't playing together since they were teenagers like John 16 with Paul 15 and George 14,and then working their a*ses of playing 8 hours a night in the sleazy strip clubs of Hamburg for 2 years having to take speed pilss to stay awake to do it,and then playing successfuly also at The Cavern club for several years.The Monkees were hired as actors specifically to play a pop rock band for their TV show,not that they weren't good.

But as a poster ReverendRock who is a reverend,rock musician and a big Beatles fan so accurately pointed out on a classic rock site over 10 years ago,that anyone who knows The Beatles history knows it's totally ludicrous to even suggest such a thing!

And The Beatles wrote many very good and great rock n roll songs and ironically were the most wild during their fake cleaned up image while they were touring from 1963-1966,going to bed with *tons* of young women groupies,many who were under age teen girls.

And also John and Paul as I'm sure most fans on here already know,wrote one of The Rolling Stones first hits the rock n roll song I Wanna Be You're Man in 1963 and they wrote it right in front of keith Richards and Mick Jagger who were really impressed that they could just write a hit song just like that,and it inspired them to start writing their own songs and it began the years of friendship between the two groups.

Also John and Paul were already writing hits for other music artists as early as 1963 just when their own song writing success was taking off.And Paul was writing songs before John,a year before he met him, when he was only 14(and he became obsessed with playing the guitar then too) after his beloved intelligent,pretty and kind nurse mid wife mother Mary died quickly from breast cancer when Paul was only 14 and his brother only 12.

John had been writing heavy poetry but had never put it to music until he met Paul and was really impressed that he was already writing his own songs and this inspired John to start writing his own soon after and of course we all know they thankfully never stopped.


And also this is how so many ignorant Beatles haters also inaccurately misperceive them and wrongly disparage them and dismiss them as a ''boy band''.And they were a brilliant,creative,diverse,prolfic rock band,the most ever.True boy bands should be dismissed,looked down on,and hated as uncool,not rocking,and untalented! And boy bands aren't good musicians and The Beatles were all very good musicians in fact most boy bands don't even play their own instruments and write their own songs.


 
The Beatles as we know, revolutionized popular and rock music and were very innovative,prolific and creative,more than any other group. And their great timeless songs are the most covered in music history by everyone from jazz musicians,classical,Motown,rock,pop and even heavy metal recording and playing their great timeless music.


Many academic musicologists and music scholars have done serious studies,analyses and praise of their great timeless music,like university of Penn gradutate musicologist Alan W.Pollack who did an extensive 11 year detailed analysis of every Beatles song.He says he hadn't even listened to The Beatles in 20 years until they came out on CD for the first time in 1987.He said The Beatles Recording Sessions by Mark Lewisohn was one of the things that motivated him to do his Beatles study.He demonstrates that even though a lot of their lyrics were simple in most of their really early songs,most of their music wasn't and that a lot of their early songs have as many as 9 chords and interesting and unsual arangements.Paul's great rocker,You Never Give Me You're Money on their excellent amazingly modern sounding rock album,Abbey Road has 21 chords.



And university of Michigan music professor and musician Walter Everett who wrote the 2 volume,The Beatles As Musicians:The Quarry Men Through Rubber Soul and The Beatles As Musicians:Revolver Through Anthology.And British musicologist and classical composer and music professor (who is dead now)Willifred Mellers 1973 book,Twilight Of The Gods:The Music Of The Beatles,and he also wrote about Beethoven,Mozart and Bob Dylan.


And award winning music professor Dr.Glen Gass who has been teaching a course on what brilliant composers The Beatles were and a rock music course at Indiana University School Of Music since 1982.Dr.Gary Kendal's Beatles course is the most requested at North Western university ,university of California also has one and Oxford university had a recent Beatles course.


How many serious music scholars and award winning music professors are teaching and writing serious academic works studying and prasing what "brilliant" composers The Rolling Stones or any other rock bands were?
« Last Edit: June 01, 2014, 12:20:21 PM by fanofthefab4 »
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fanofthefab4

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Re: The New Mark Lewisohn Books
« Reply #141 on: June 01, 2014, 11:28:17 AM »

 
 
Also  there is  an  online  interview with  Roger Daltry,Roger's Journey With The Who in The Sun and he was asked if The Who had screaming girls at a certain point,and he said after Can't Explain they did. He said it was the screaming teenage era and every band had them on their way up.He said it was fun at first but the trouble for a performer when you are that young and  inexperienced is  that you start to judge your performances on the amount they scream,he said it's  nonsense which is  why Lennon gave up. He also  said that The Who's  manager turned their image overnight from scruffy rockers  to  Mods.
 
 
 
If  you still insist the  false ludicrous claim that The  early Beatles were ever a "boy band" then you are just further  proving your ignorance.When The Beatles played live in 1963,64,65 & 66 they only had 100 watt amplifiers,no feedback monitors so they couldn't hear themselves sing and play,plus the screaming crowds and that's why they gave up touring.
 

George Harrison says in The Beatles Anthology video series,that for their August 1965  Shea Stadium concerts, special 100 watt  amplifiers were made and that they went up from only 30 watts before. Given how limited and primitive the sound systems were then,it's amazing they sounded as good as they did live.
 

Former  Kiss  guitarist  Bob Kulick  who produced the heavy metal album Butchering The Beatles, said he saw The Beatles in concert in 1966 and he said he could hear parts of Baby's In Black & Paperback Writer and  they sounded amazing.
 
 
 
A guy Steve from Canada said on Artist Facts,that he saw The Beatles live in 1966 and The Stones in 1996(and the sound systems by then were  a zillion times better!) and he said don't get me wrong,The Stones were great but they were no match for The Beatles and he called The Beatles The Greatest  Band  Of All Time.
 
 

And a  guy said  on a message board in September, said that he too once wrongly believed that  the  early Beatles were  a boy band like The Back Street Boys,until he got out of  7th grade.The Beatles started out playing  8 hours a night in the sleazy strip clubs of Hamburg Germany,taking speed pills to stay awake,wearing tight black leather jackets and pants,smoking and cursing on stage,and had sex with so many young women groupies including the strippers in those clubs,they were successful there. They also played successfully in the Liverpool Cavern Club for years.
 
 

Even  many  fans of The Rolling Stones  who are also Beatles fans, said on several Rolling Stones message boards,and Beatles fans said this on Beatles fan boards,that THe Beatles cleaned up image was a total fake one created by their manager,and that they know that  The Beatles were just as wild as The Stones with sex and drugs in their personal lives and were friends who hung out together.
 
There used  to be an online interview with Charlie Watts from a 1973 Magazine called,Zig Zag  called,The Drinking Man's Rolling Stone. He says that The Beatles and The Rolling Stones were good friends,and that they were a lot alike as people. He also said what made The Beatles so great is that they made one great album and one great single after the next.
 
 
 
And  I  don't want  to  be  on  bad terms with anyone on here, and  I'm not trying to bother anybody ,but  I  really  am  just trying  to  debunk this totally inaccurate ridiculous unfortunately common  myth that  The Beatles were ever  a  boy band,they were  a  great *ROCK n ROLL* band  from the start!
 

John and George especially hated Beatle Mania,and George says in The Anthology series,that it took a toll on their nervous systems,they had no  life either  trapped in hotel rooms most of the time. They wanted to be popular & successful as  every band does,but they didn't want or ask  for  the hysteria.John says in his 1975 Tomorrow Show interview that the screaming wasn't doing the music any good,and that things would break down and nobody would know.
 
 
 
The  Beatles  sound great  on  their live roof top January 1969  concert  in The Let It Be Film, and the  sound systems had improved by then,(although still very limited compared to today's) and there were  no more screaming crowds.
 
 
Paul  was  playing guitar and writing songs at 14 and he started  soon after  his beloved nurse and midwife  mother Mary died of breast cancer,and he wrote the beautiful song Let It  Be after he  had  a  real seeming dream where he saw her alive again and she told him to just accept things as they are.He says in his authorized biography,that when he woke up he thought how great it was to see her alive again.
 
 
John was writing deep  heavy poetry when he was a kid,and he started writing his own songs at age 17 not long after he met Paul and was impressed that was writing his own songs. Paul wrote the very pretty song,I'll Follow The Sun at age 16. They didn't know at this age they would make it big and they weren't making a penny from it then.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2014, 11:56:08 AM by fanofthefab4 »
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fanofthefab4

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Re: The New Mark Lewisohn Books
« Reply #142 on: June 01, 2014, 11:29:54 AM »

I haven't read this book Tune In yet,but I have read all of the over 200 mostly great reviews for it on Amazon.com US and now the reviews on amazon.UK And quite a few people have said that Mark dispels the ''myth'' that when John was only 5 years old his parents forced him to choose which parent he was going to live with.Johh even dealt with this trauma in his primal scream therapy with psychologist Arthur Janov.
 
 
And in Ray Coleman's excellent up dated John Lennon biography,Lennon(Ray was an award wining music journalist and former editor of The Melody Maker Magazine and a good friend of John's from 1962-1980) in his 1992 introduction on page 40 he quotes John's father's then much younger wife Pauline Lennon from her book,Daddy Come Home:The True Story of John Lennon and His Father who came to see John with his father on John's 30th birthday.She says that John confronted his father in a rage and this is part of what he said,''Look at me! I'm bloody insane.I'm due for an early death like Hendrix or Joplin and it's all your fault.John then said,''Do you know what it does to a child to be asked to choose between his parents? Do you know how it tears him apart,blows his bloody mind?''
 
 
Ray says that her book is unnervingly and surprisingly strong with verbatim reports of electrifying conversations and he says there is even the precise exchange when John called his father from New York  when his father was on his death bed in a hospital in Brighton in 1976 and that John said to him,''I'm sorry to have treated you the way I did Dad. I should never have gone to the head shrink.It was a big mistake.And his father Freddy said to him,forget it John it's just bloody marvelous to talk to you again.Wikipedia reports that John sent his father a big bouquet of flowers to the hospital.
 
 
 Also,in January of 1972 when John and Yoko co-hosted the Mike Douglas show for a week,in one of the shows Mike said to John and Yoko,You're both so different,you had such different childhoods. John said,it's incredible isn't it? Yoko said,Yes! Mike asked,What do you think has attracted you to each other? Yoko said,We're very similar.John then said,She came from a Japanese upper-middle class family.Her parents were bankers and all that jazz,very straight.He said they were trying to get her off with an ambassador when she was 18.You know,now is the time you marry the ambassador and we get all settled. I come from a an upper-working class family in Liverpool,the other end of the world. John then said,we met but our minds are so similar,our ideas are so similar.It was incredible that we could be so alike from different enviornments,and I don't know what it is,but we're very similar in our heads.And we look alike too!
 

 
Mike also asked John about his painful childhood,and how his father left him when he was 5,and John said how he only came back into his life when he was successful and famous(20 years later!),and John said he knew that I was living all those years in the same house with my auntie,but he never visited him.He said when he came back into his life all those years later,he looked after his father for the same amount of time he looked after him,about 4 years.


He also talked about how his beloved mother Julia,who encouraged his music by teaching him to play the banjo,got hit and killed by a car driven by an off duty drunk cop when John was only 17 and just getting to have a realtionship with her after she had given him away to be raised by her older sister Mimi when he was 5.


And John also said,And in spite of all that,I still don't have a hate-the-pigs attitude or hate-cops attitude.He then said, I think everybody's human you know,but it was very hard for me at that time,and I really had a chip on my shoulder,and it still comes out now and then,because it's a strange life to lead .He then said,But in general ah,I've got my own family now ...I got Yoko and she made up for all that pain.

 

John's psychologist Dr. Arthur Janov told Mojo Magazine in 2000( parts of this interview is on a great UK John Lennon fan site,You Are The Plastic Ono Band) that John had as much pain as he had ever seen in his life,and he was a psychologist for at least 18 years when John and Yoko saw him in 1970! He said John was a very dedicated patient. He also said that John left therapy too early though and that they opened him up,but didn't get a chance to put him back together again and Dr. Janov told John he need to finish the therapy,he said because of the immigration services and he thought Nixon was after him,he said we have to get out of the country.John asked if he could send a therapist to Mexico with him,and Dr. Janov told him we can't do that because they had too many patients to take care of,and he said they cut the therapy off just as it started really,and we were just getting going.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2014, 11:36:20 AM by fanofthefab4 »
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nimrod

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Re: The New Mark Lewisohn Books
« Reply #143 on: June 01, 2014, 12:01:45 PM »

Quote
If  you still insist the  false ludicrous claim that The  early Beatles were ever a "boy band" then you are just further  proving your ignorance

Hi fanofthefab4

Its a pity you didn't just pm me about my remark, I could have saved you typing those last two mega posts..

I used the term 'boy band' only in an explicative way, using the modern idiom of the term to magnify the change or metamorphosis of the band, an analogy of sorts, if you like, I didn't imagine anyone would take that comment literally.
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fanofthefab4

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Re: The New Mark Lewisohn Books
« Reply #144 on: June 01, 2014, 12:35:12 PM »

Hi  :),

I actully didn't mean to call you ignorant,(although it is ignorant for anyone to seriously inaccurately believe that The Beatles were ever a ''boy band'') I actually had cut and pasted from my email filing cabinet(without seeing that this specific line was included here) what I wrote on other message boards where people were literally saying they ludicrously,foolishly, actually believe that The Beatles were a true boy band like NSYNC,The Back Street Boys,etc and now this ridiculous Jonas Brothers comparison.


But anyway,I want to share what I wrote with all of the Beatles fans on here,not just in a PM to you.Thank you for answering and explaining what you meant.

« Last Edit: June 01, 2014, 01:16:19 PM by fanofthefab4 »
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fanofthefab4

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Re: The New Mark Lewisohn Books
« Reply #145 on: June 01, 2014, 12:51:51 PM »

Also,

http://www.eonline.com/news/35092/quiet-beatle-disses-oasis-spice-girls

In a 1997 interview George Harrison blasted The Spice Girls,(the girl equivalent of a true boy band) as having no talent unlike The Beatles and for some strange reason he put genuine rock bands Oasis and U2(who ironically are both big Beatles fans especially Liam and Bono and despite George's insult Bono was in a tribute to George on a cable show soon after he died,it might have been MTV or VH1) in this same category and said he didn't think any of them would be remembered in 30 years.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2014, 12:57:49 PM by fanofthefab4 »
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Moogmodule

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Re: The New Mark Lewisohn Books
« Reply #146 on: June 01, 2014, 12:58:41 PM »

Also,

http://www.eonline.com/news/35092/quiet-beatle-disses-oasis-spice-girls

In a 1997 interview George Harrison blasted The Spice girls,(the girl equivalent of a true boy band) as having no talent unlike The Beatles and for some strange reason he put genuine rock bands Oasis and U2 in this same category and said he didn't think any of them would be remembered in 30 years.


George is also quoted as saying "We were the Spice Boys".

George, like John could sometimes say things a bit facetiously and it can be hard to know when to take what he said at face value.
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fanofthefab4

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Re: The New Mark Lewisohn Books
« Reply #147 on: June 01, 2014, 01:31:17 PM »

George is also quoted as saying "We were the Spice Boys".

George, like John could sometimes say things a bit facetiously and it can be hard to know when to take what he said at face value.

I really doubt that George ever said that.And if you know how ludicrous it is to even consider that The Beatles,who were a true great rock band,were ever a ''boy band'' how can you even belive he said such a ridiculous thing,and even if he did, not see how ludicrous ,inaccurate and hypocritical it was.But  I seriously doubt he meant that in even the slightest way at all.And when and where did George supposedly say such  ludicrous inaccurate nonsense?Do you really think he truly ludicrously believed that The Spice Girls wrote tons if any great creative,prolific,diverse, timeless critically acclaimed serious music,were great musicians and singers like The Beatles were?

For decades people kept repeating the also ridiculous line of John supposedly saying when asked if Ringo was the best drummer in the world ,that he's not even the best drummer in The Beatles.I always knew that John never would or did say this,and nobody ever listed when and where he supposedely said this.

Well it turns out Mark Lewisohn uncovered that's because it was a myth and John never said it at all,a comedian in 1983,three years after John died said it!

In fact on the great UK John Lennon fan site,You Are The Plastic Ono Band there are interviews with John in magazines and news papers all through the years and in a 1971 interview in the New York ST.Regis hotel John was asked about Ringo's drumming and John said that Jim Keltner is a bit more technical,but he said Ringo is still one of the best drummers in rock.

And who did John use as a drummer on his first true great solo album John Lennon Plastic Ono Band,Ringo when almost any drummer would have jumped at the chance to play on John Lennon's albums!


I'm sure George meant what he said about The Spice Girls(which is totally true!),Oasis and U2 though.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2014, 01:40:43 PM by fanofthefab4 »
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fanofthefab4

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Re: The New Mark Lewisohn Books
« Reply #148 on: June 01, 2014, 01:48:24 PM »

Also,

a few years ago on some site where they were discussing different definitions of things some ignorant idiot said The Beatles were a boy band,so a guy sited a real definition of a true boy band and he rightfully said that The Beatles *were not* a ''boy band'' and he also so rightfully said that it's an insult to call them that!

The truth is it's not only a ludicrous,nonsense,inaccurate,ignorant and insult to The Beatles,but to any of their many many fans over the age of 12!When I was like 9 I liked The Bay City Rollers,The Partrige Family as well as The Beatles,but by the time I was 12 I didn't like them anymore but I loved the Beatles more than ever and I knew the total difference between them and The Beatles as a genuine great rock band.

Not only did it never ludicrously occur to me to ever think of The Beatles as a ''boy band'',but it never occurred to me that it would ever have occurred to anybody else either!

Also many years ago a guy so rightfully said in response to another of the all too ridiculous common nonsense ignorant claims that The Beatles were ever a ''boy band'',that The Beatles were *Never* a boy band not even during their 1963-1965 period! And on another site a guy said he too had once (wrongly)  believed that The Beatles were a boy band like NSYNC and The Back Street Boys,until he got out of 7th grade.

And I have also *never* read or heard any serious respected rock music critics or respected successful well known musicians refer to them that way.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2014, 02:13:21 PM by fanofthefab4 »
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fanofthefab4

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Re: The New Mark Lewisohn Books
« Reply #149 on: June 01, 2014, 02:18:58 PM »

Hi fanofthefab4

Its a pity you didn't just pm me about my remark, I could have saved you typing those last two mega posts..

I used the term 'boy band' only in an explicative way, using the modern idiom of the term to magnify the change or metamorphosis of the band, an analogy of sorts, if you like, I didn't imagine anyone would take that comment literally.

Sorry,but it really doesn't make any sense what you said about how you used the modern idiom(which is what true modern boy bands are)of the term to magnify the change or metamorphosis of The Beatles,so you are without either realizing or admitting it,saying they became a 1960's version of the modern boy band. roll:) :o ???  >:(
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fanofthefab4

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Re: The New Mark Lewisohn Books
« Reply #150 on: June 01, 2014, 02:46:42 PM »

Also,

a few years ago on some site where they were discussing different definitions of things some ignorant idiot said The Beatles were a boy band,so a guy sited a real definition of a true boy band and he rightfully said that The Beatles *were not* a ''boy band'' and he also so rightfully said that it's an insult to call them that!

The truth is it's not only a ludicrous,nonsense,inaccurate,ignorant and insult to The Beatles,but to any of their many many fans over the age of 12!When I was like 9 I liked The Bay City Rollers,The Partrige Family as well as The Beatles,but by the time I was 12 I didn't like them anymore but I loved the Beatles more than ever and I knew the total difference between them and The Beatles as a genuine great rock band.

Not only did it never ludicrously occur to me to ever think of The Beatles as a ''boy band'',but it never occurred to me that it would ever have occurred to anybody else either!

Also many years ago a guy so rightfully said in response to another of the all too ridiculous common nonsense ignorant claims that The Beatles were ever a ''boy band'',that The Beatles were *Never* a boy band not even during their 1963-1965 period! And on another site a guy said he too had once (wrongly)  believed that The Beatles were a boy band like NSYNC and The Back Street Boys,until he got out of 7th grade.

And I have also *never* read or heard any serious respected rock music critics or respected successful well known musicians refer to them that way.
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Re: The New Mark Lewisohn Books
« Reply #151 on: June 01, 2014, 02:51:11 PM »

 
Also there was no good rocking music out in 1963 and early 1964 when The Beatles wrote and released I Want To Hold Your Hand and She Loves you etc and they started to record their first great album,A Hard Day's Night in January 1964,The Rolling Stones were still playing cover songs,including as I and another poster pointed out, one of their first hits written by John and Paul,I Wanna Be You're Man,and the artists who were out then were,The Four Seasons,Bobby Darin,Bobby vinton,and The Beach Boys who wrote all beach surfing hits,none of this was rocking,until The Beatles songs which were ahead of their time for the times,different and more rocking than anything then!
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Re: The New Mark Lewisohn Books
« Reply #152 on: June 01, 2014, 02:54:05 PM »

 
Bob Dylan ,Roger McGuinn of The Byrds and music critic William Mann of The London Times as early as 1963 and 1964 pointed out that even in early Beatles songs like She Loves You and I Want To Hold Your Hand had unusual and interesting chords and they arranged them.


And as early as late 1963 a music critic Richard Buckle in The London Times called John and Paul the two of the most briliant composers since Beethoven after John and Paul composed the music for a ballet Mods and Rockers.
And John and Paul wrote one of The Rolling Stones first hits, I Wanna Be Your Man in late 1963 right in front of them. And Keith Richards and Mick Jagger were impressed and said wow,how can you write a song just like that and it inspired them to start writing their own songs.


John Lennon and Paul McCartney were such amazingly talented singer song writers that they were already writing hit songs for other artists as early as 1963 when their own song writing success was getting off the ground,besides The Rolling Stones,they also wrote hit songs in 1963 for Billy J.Krammer and The Dakatos,Celia Black,and Peter and Gordon etc.


Paul wrote his first song at age 14 and was playing guitar,John wrote heavy deep poetry but didn't start writing songs until he met Paul and was impressed that he wrote his own songs,and he too started to write his own songs at age 17,and they wrote together and never stopped from then on.Paul wrote the very pretty song I'll Follow The Sun at only 16!
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fanofthefab4

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Re: The New Mark Lewisohn Books
« Reply #153 on: June 01, 2014, 02:56:17 PM »

 
And in an excellent Beatles book Ticket To Ride by Denny Somach where so many other well known popular respected rock musicians and artists are interviewed about The Beatles praising them including Jimmy Page,Brian Wilson who says he's always loved The Beatles. And Brian Wilson called John & Paul the greatest song writers of the 20th century on a 1995 Nightline Beatles tribute show,(which had on music artists from every type of music,a young black jazz musician,a middle aged black opera singer,Steve Winwood,Meatloaf,and classical violnist Isak Perleman,who said he plays his children Bach,Beethoven Mozart and The Beatles)and he played With A Little Help From My Friends on the piano and he said he just loves this song. He also said that Sgt.Pepper is the greatest album he ever heard and The All Music Guide says in their Beach Boys biography,that Brian had a nerveous breakdown after he heard it. Brian also said that when he first heard The Beatles brilliant 1965 folk rock album Rubber Soul he was blown away by it.He said all of the songs flowed together and it was pop music but folk rock at the same time and he couldn't believe they did this so great,this inspired him to make Pet Sounds.



John Lodge and Justin of The Moody Blues are interviewed in this book and Bill Wyman and Ron Wood says how The Rolling Stones became good friends with The Beatles in 1963 after John and Paul wrote 1 of their first hits,the Rock n Roll song,I Wanna Be You're Man.


Ron Wood was asked what his favorite Beatles songs and he said there are so many apart from the obvious like Strawberry Fields I Want To Hold Your Hand is one he said he used to like a lot ,and he said he really loved We Can Work It Out.He also says that The Beatles used to have a radio show every Friday where they played live and spoke and he would never miss an episode. He said infarct whoever has the rights to those shows should dig them up,because they are incredible.


Justin Hayward says that the album he always really loved ,and he said it was when they started experimenting with chord structures ,was A Hard Day's Night.He says they began to move away from the standard 3 chord thing and just went into more interesting structures .He said A Hard Day's Night was the album for him and their song If I Fell was the song.He said it started in a different key to how it ended up,and it's a beautifully worked out song and that there are some songs on that album that were very emotional and evocative. He said that for everybody just starting to write songs as he was,it was a real turn on and eye opener.
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fanofthefab4

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Re: The New Mark Lewisohn Books
« Reply #154 on: June 01, 2014, 02:59:02 PM »

 
As The All Music Guide says in their excellent Beatles biography "That it's difficult to summarize their career without restating cliches that have already been digested by tens of millions of rock fans, to start with the obvious,they were the greatest and most influential act of the rock era and introduced more innovations into popular music than any other rock band of the 20th century."



"Moreover they were among the few artists of *any* discipline that were simultaneously the best at what they did *and* the most popular at what they did." THey also say as singers John Lennon and Paul McCartney were among the best and most expressive in rock.


Also on an excellent site,The Evolution of Rock Bass Playing McCartney Style by Dennnis Alstrand,Stanley Clarke,Sting,Will Lee,Billy Sheehan,George Martin and John Lennon are quoted saying what a great,melodic and influential bass player Paul has always been.



And Wilco's John Stirratt was asked in Bass Player which bass players have had the most impact on his playing and the first thing he said was, Paul McCartney is one of the greatest bass players of all time,if you listen to what he was tracking live in the studio it's unbelievable." "With his tone and musicality he was a huge influence,he covered all of his harmonic responsibilities really well but his baselines were absolutely melodic and inventive."



And in an online 1977 Eric Clapton interview,Eric Clapton In His Own Words he says that there was always this guitar game between John and George,and he said partly because John was a pretty good guitar player himself.He played live with John as a member of John's 1969 Plastic Ono Band.


And there is a great online article by musician and song writer Peter Cross,The Beatles Are The Most Creative Band Of All Time and he says that many musicians besides him recognize Paul as one of the best bass guitar players ever.He too says that John and Paul are the greatest song composers and that to say that John and Paul are among 2 of the greatest singers in rock and roll is to state the obvious,and that John,Paul and George were all excellent guitarists and that George is underrated by people not educated about music but that Eric Clapton knew better,he also says that both John and Paul played great leads as well as innovative rhythm tracks.



John Lennon co-wrote,sang and played guitar on one of David Bowie's first hits Fame in 1975 and David invited John to play guitar on his version of John's beautiful Beatles song Across The Universe.Brain May,Ozzy Osbourne,and Liam Gallagher and many more call The Beatles The Greatest Band Ever.



Also on MusicRadar Tom Petty,Joe Perry and Richie Sambora in What The Beatles Mean To Me all say how cool and great they thought The Beatles were when they first saw them on The Ed Sullivan Show in February 1964 when they were just teen boys,Richie was only 5.Tom Petty said he thought they were really really great.

Robin Zander of Cheap Trick said he's probably one of the biggest Beatles fans on the planet.Brad Whitford of Aerosmith said that a lot of that Beatles influence comes from Steven Tyler's collaborartion with Mark Hudson both whom are absolute Beatles freaks and he said I guess the goal is to try and emulate probably some of the best music of the last 50 years which has to be The Beatles.
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fanofthefab4

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Re: The New Mark Lewisohn Books
« Reply #155 on: June 01, 2014, 03:00:47 PM »

 
As The Rolling Stone Album Guide said,not liking The Beatles is as perverse as not liking the sun. And Ozzy Osbourne said not loving The Beatles is like not loving oxogen. And a guy who runs Keno's Classic Rock n Roll Site and who runs a Rolling Stones and John Lennon fan site says in his review of The Beatles 1967-1970 Red Album damn The Beatles were one great group and he said in his great review of The Beatles 1962-1966 Red album, that if you don't love or at least like The Beatles and their music then you are not a true rock fan and more than likely will never ever get it.


He also says that John Lennon showed on Paul's rocker Get Back why he should have played lead guitar more often because he did such a good job of it. He also said he played a pretty good slide guitar on George's For Your Blue and he said John also played one of the first and best acid guitar parts on his great rocker Revolution.
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fanofthefab4

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Re: The New Mark Lewisohn Books
« Reply #156 on: June 01, 2014, 03:03:15 PM »

 
I have to say that Brian Epstein was very lucky as was George Martin to have the brilliant singer song composers John Lennon and Paul McCartney as their employees and clients! It would be any group manager's and producer's dream.


I'm sure that John and Paul and probably George too would have been discovered by someone else sooner or later.George Martin before becoming The Beatles producer,had some success producing comedy and some classical records,but he never had the big success before or after producing The Beatles and he produced quite a few music artists after them.


He himself has said that he has never known or worked with *any* other music artists as brilliant as The Beatles.And Brian Epstein would have stayed a manager of a record store in England that hardly anybody ever heard of.


By the way,my maternal grandmother's good friend for years was Brian Epstein's first cousin Sylvia Levy,and I met her when I was 15.She had been living in this country for decades yet she still had a very obvious Liverpool accent.She told me what I already had learned from my Beatles books,that Brian was very depressed and had emotional problems.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2014, 03:06:54 PM by fanofthefab4 »
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nimrod

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Re: The New Mark Lewisohn Books
« Reply #157 on: June 02, 2014, 02:51:22 AM »

Sorry,but it really doesn't make any sense what you said about how you used the modern idiom(which is what true modern boy bands are)of the term to magnify the change or metamorphosis of The Beatles,so you are without either realizing or admitting it,saying they became a 1960's version of the modern boy band. roll:) :o ???  >:(

ok, forget I used the term 'boy band' & replace it with 'clean cut & popular mop tops'...as I have tried to explain, it wasn't meant literally.

what ever you want to call them theyre act was cleaned up (so were there stage manners) to appeal to the audience they did appeal too on a massive scale ie teenage girls and theyre Beatlemania.

I don't think they were a boy band.
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Re: The New Mark Lewisohn Books
« Reply #158 on: June 02, 2014, 05:40:40 AM »

George is also quoted as saying "We were the Spice Boys".

George, like John could sometimes say things a bit facetiously and it can be hard to know when to take what he said at face value.


Quote from: fanofthefab4
And when and where did George supposedly say such  ludicrous inaccurate nonsense?


He said it in response to a comment made by Ravi Shankar regarding the The Beatles' popularity. It can be found here in this book: Glass Onion: The Beatles in Their Own Words It's on page 190, almost at the end.

I'm quite certain George said it in a tongue-in-cheek way. He was just being funny, in much the same way he was here in  "All You Need is Cash":
@ :51



George had a great sense of humor!

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Kelley

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Moogmodule

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Re: The New Mark Lewisohn Books
« Reply #159 on: June 02, 2014, 07:06:33 AM »

He said it in response to a comment made by Ravi Shankar regarding the The Beatles' popularity. It can be found here in this book: Glass Onion: The Beatles in Their Own Words It's on page 190, almost at the end.

I'm quite certain George said it in a tongue-in-cheek way. He was just being funny, in much the same way he was here in  "All You Need is Cash":
@ :51

http://youtu.be/QECizI13ZOM

George had a great sense of humor!


It's also emblazoned on a quote wall in the Beatles Museum in Liverpool. Of course he was saying it with a smirk. That was George.

In any case fanofthefab4 you're really preaching , at great length, to the choir here. No one here really thinks the Beatles were a boy band as we understand the term today. I doubt if that view was held we'd waste our time picking over their music to the extent we do.

But the music scene in the early 60s wasn't what it is today. Young teenagers weren't catered for as a separate entity to be marketed to like they are now.  They largely listened to what their parents listened to (probably with a bored expression in most cases). So when you did get a fresh act which featured cute guys with catchy tunes then naturally teenage girls would latch on quickly, whatever the additional qualities of the music were. And as we all here think, in the Beatles  case, even in their earliest stages, there was musically a lot going on.

With aggressive marketing of acts to this demographic in today's world, it's natural  that some of the elements that made the Beatles popular are represented in the boy bands of today. Mainly a catchy energy to the songs and a general boyish cuteness. That was, of course, only a fraction of what made the Beatles what they were  and therein lies the extremely large difference between them and what is marketed to teenage girls today.




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