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Author Topic: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar  (Read 17781 times)

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Bobber

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Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti guitar pick up at Top Ten
« Reply #40 on: May 02, 2010, 07:52:15 AM »

^It IS a little vague. lol. But probably good enough for your research.
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Xose

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Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
« Reply #41 on: May 02, 2010, 12:04:44 PM »

...But probably good enough for your research.

Oh yes. Sure!! His relative is going to give me more info, as I have placed a few more questions.

Xosé
« Last Edit: May 05, 2010, 08:21:48 AM by Xose »
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Xose

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Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
« Reply #42 on: May 05, 2010, 08:00:34 AM »

Deleted due to duplication...
« Last Edit: May 05, 2010, 08:22:07 AM by Xose »
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Xose

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Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
« Reply #43 on: May 05, 2010, 08:02:46 AM »

Here there are the receipts for John's Club 40, George's Futurama and Stu's 500/5, scanned from Babiuk's book. I also enclose two catalogue scans from those days with the price for a Rosetti Solid 7: £18-8-0. Those catalogues are very interesting and, among other things, they give the very address for Rosetti Co. in London: Fitzroy Court, W.1...

With the help of a magnifying glass I can conclude the following:

- John Lennon signed his hire-purchase agreement with Hessy's for his Höfner Club 40 on 1959, August the 28th. His aunt Mimi was the guarantor and paid a deposit of £17-0-0. The hire-purchase contract rises the initial price of £28-7-0 to £30-9-0, by means of £2-2-0 add charges. First payment of £0-5-0 is dated September 10. John had to pay £0-5-0 during 53 weeks, i.e., a total amount of £14-5-0 (=is this last calculation correct??)

- George Harrison signed his hire-purchase agreement with Hessy's for his Futurama Grazioso on 1959, November the 20th. His mum Elsie was the guarantor and paid a deposit of £10-0-0. The hire-purchase contract rises the intitial price of £64-1-0 to £74-6-0, by means of £10-5-0 add charges. First payment of £0-16-0 is dated December 5. George had to pay £0-16-6 during 44 weeks, i.e., a total amount of £37-4-0 (=is this last calculation correct??)


- Stuart Sutcliffe signed his hire-purchase agreement with Hessy's for his Höfner 500/5 bass on 1960, January the 21st. His guarantor was ??? (=I can't read it at Babiuk's scan) and paid a deposit of £15-0-0. The hire-purchase contract rises the intitial price of £50-8-0 to £59-15-0, by means of £9-7-0 add charges. First payment £8-0-0 is dated..., February 4 ??? (=I can't read it at Babiuk's scan) Stu had to pay £0-8-0 during 40 weeks, i.e., a total amount of £16-0-0 (=is this last calculation correct??)


I hope to be right with my calculations as old English currency is a bit complicated for me... ???

If this is correct, then Paul McCartney (=who had to pay £21-0-0 for his Solid 7, being the initial guitar's price £18-8-0 and the agreement £0-10-0 a week) should have to pay during 42 weeks..., correct?? So, add charges were £2-12-0 (=is this last calculation correct??)


I still wonder if there was any deposit before for Macca's Solid 7, having in mind that John, George & Stu made a deposit. It had to be an usual procedure at the time...

And..., why John, George and Stu (=and Paul!!) get different add charges for their purchases?? Is due to the different prices of their respective instruments?? Due to different deposits?? Or perhaps is due to the fact that they finished payments at different time rates??

I would love to know your thoughts...

Best,

Xosé









« Last Edit: May 05, 2010, 08:25:05 PM by Xose »
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Bobber

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Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
« Reply #44 on: May 05, 2010, 10:09:12 AM »

I can't help you with the old English currencies, Xose. Maybe one of the old English codgers around here.
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Xose

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Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
« Reply #45 on: May 05, 2010, 10:41:19 AM »

I can't help you with the old English currencies, Xose. Maybe one of the old English codgers around here.

Thanks anyway!!  ;)

I hope someone of them can do it, as seems that only you and me read this thread!!  ???

Xosé
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Kevin

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Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
« Reply #46 on: May 05, 2010, 04:04:40 PM »

They refer to the predecimal (1971) system of pounds, shillings and pence, a system of almost Byzantium complication that only the British could invent (or suffer using.)
A pound was divided into twenty shillings and each shilling into twelve pence. Have fun you nutters. (though your subject baffles me I have a deep admiration for the depths of detail you are willing to explore. This, if not the subject, warms me greatly.)
There were also coins representing 1/4 and 1/2 a penny. (so you would need 960 farthings to make a pound.)
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Xose

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Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
« Reply #47 on: May 05, 2010, 04:34:49 PM »

They refer to the predecimal (1971) system of pounds, shillings and pence, a system of almost Byzantium complication that only the British could invent (or suffer using.)
A pound was divided into twenty shillings and each shilling into twelve pence. Have fun you nutters. (though your subject baffles me I have a deep admiration for the depths of detail you are willing to explore. This, if not the subject, warms me greatly.)
There were also coins representing 1/4 and 1/2 a penny. (so you would need 960 farthings to make a pound.)

Thank you very much Kevin!! ;)

So..., what about my calculations?? Could you tell me if they are right or wrong??

Best,

Xosé
« Last Edit: May 05, 2010, 08:22:20 PM by Xose »
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Xose

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Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
« Reply #48 on: May 05, 2010, 09:24:02 PM »

Quote from: Xosé
I finally could manage to reach John Askew (=aka Johnny Gentle). Someone from his family emails me the following:

"...Hi again. I have just spoken to Johnny G and he hasn't got a book with him as he is away on his holidays but he has said that he can't remember exactly where in the book Paul's guitar is mentioned but did say that the co author Ian Forsyth did a lot of research for the book and feels it may be something he added...."

Johnny Gentle - Ian Forsyth, Johnny Gentle & The Beatles. First Ever Tour. Scotland 1960, Cheshire, Merseyrock, 1998, p. 48:

"...The musty old red curtains swung back to reveal the five Beatles dressed in black shirts and jeans with two tone tennis shoes. Stuart was clutching his Hofner President bass, Paul his Rosetti Solid 7, which would later dramatically fall to pieces in Hamburg through overuse,George his cherry red Grazioso and John his Hofner Club 40..."

Johnny Gentle - Ian Forsyth, Johnny Gentle & The Beatles. First Ever Tour. Scotland 1960, Cheshire, Merseyrock, 1998, pp. 75-76:

"...They'd agreed that their first stop would be Hessy's Music Store on Stanley Street as the last seven days had shown how shoddy their meagre equipment really was. In fact apart from Tommy's drums all their kit needed replacing. John especially thought his Hofner Club 40 had had it and already had his eyes on the thin line hollow bodied Rickenbacker Capri, which had been launched in 1958. Paul's £18 Dutch made Solid 7 would confirm their fears by literally falling apart in Germany less than six months later! Only George was, for the time being, happy with his Grazioso, the model was later licensed by Selmer and sold at £60 as the renamed Futurama..."

Xosé
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Bobber

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Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
« Reply #49 on: May 06, 2010, 07:13:12 AM »

Well, at least the author confirmed his first statement. Source?
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Xose

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Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
« Reply #50 on: May 06, 2010, 08:57:07 AM »

Well, at least the author confirmed his first statement. Source?

No. Ian Forsyth gives no sources for these statements. IMHO he knows that Paul had used a Rosetti Solid 7 around that time and he thought Paul used it at Scottish tour. That's all.

It's like those myths regarding The Beatles that circulate years and years and end being 'The Truth'...

Best,

Xosé
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Bobber

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Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
« Reply #51 on: May 06, 2010, 09:08:34 AM »

Exactly. According to your eye witness Paul did not have the Rosetti on the Scottish tour at all. I remember a story of a small crash with the van on the Scottish tour, which damaged Tommy Moore's face. Maybe Paul's guitar of that time had had its best time as well by then.
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Xose

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Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
« Reply #52 on: May 06, 2010, 09:23:24 AM »

Exactly. According to your eye witness Paul did not have the Rosetti on the Scottish tour at all. I remember a story of a small crash with the van on the Scottish tour, which damaged Tommy Moore's face. Maybe Paul's guitar of that time had had its best time as well by then.


Yes, that's right But remember that Paul still owns his guitar of that time (=his Zenith). See here:

Paul McCartney - Twenty Flight Rock


Anyway, the point now is trying to understand those John, George and Stu's receipts, because we could have a frame of what happened with Paul's Solid 7 purchase. I mean: Paul's HP book states 30 June, but IMHO that is THE date of HP agreement. I think Paul had to put down a deposit in advance, as John, George and Stu did, and we could find out which amount was that deposit if somebody from England could help to understand that old English currency, taking in mind the percentages of John, George and Stu's purchases. You know what I mean?? My English language is not good enought to explain myself properly!!  ???

So, if Paul put down a deposit, it had to be BEFORE the HP agreement, and this would lead us to a date BEFORE 30 june 1960.

What do you think??

Best,

Xosé
« Last Edit: May 06, 2010, 09:29:07 AM by Xose »
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Xose

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Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
« Reply #53 on: May 06, 2010, 09:33:57 AM »

Have a look once more time at the gigs in the Wirral Penninsula booked by Les Dodd (=acting Williams as their agent), before the date of Rosetti Solid 7 HP agreement. According to Allan Williams they were paid £9 a gig. They had to pay £1 to Williams and £1 to the van driver:

June the 2nd., Thursday: Neston Institute, Neston
June the 4th., Saturday: Corporation's Grosvernor Ballroom, Liscard
June the 6th., Monday: Corporation's Grosvenor Ballroom, with Gerry and the Pacemakers
June the 9th., Thursday: Neston Institute
June the 11th., Saturday: Corporation's Grosvenor Ballroom.
June the 13th., Monday: Performance at manager Allan Williams' Jacaranda Club. It was drummer Tommy Moore's final appearance with the group
June the 16th., Thursday: Neston Institute. Also performing are Keith Rowlands and the Deesiders
June the 18th., Saturday. Corporation's Grosvenor Ballroom (=Paul's 18th. birthday)
June the 23rd., Thursday: Neston Institute
June the 25th., Saturday: Corporation's Grosvenor Ballroom
June the 30th., Thursday: Neston Institute (=Rosetti Solid 7 HP agreement date)


 ??? ??? ???

Xosé
« Last Edit: May 06, 2010, 09:38:20 AM by Xose »
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Xose

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Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
« Reply #54 on: May 11, 2010, 10:35:55 PM »

Mr. George Borthwick has just sent to me these photos, taken last Saturday. They are the Dalrymple Hall in Fraserburgh, where the Silver Beetles backed Johnny Gentle in 23 May 1960, and the Rescue Hall in Peterhead, where they backed Johnny Gentle in 28 May 1960. As I told you, Mr. George Borthwick attended both performances...

Best,

Xosé



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Bobber

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Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
« Reply #55 on: May 12, 2010, 08:22:12 AM »

Great pics!
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Xose

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Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
« Reply #56 on: May 12, 2010, 03:23:25 PM »

A little bit of more -and VERY interesting- info from Mr. George Borthwick:

"...I remember the guitars & Paul being left handed, I had never seen a left handed guitar player before. John was loudest vocally. I hardly noticed the others.I got a surprise when I went to the Rescue Hall and 'Ho, thats the same group I saw a few days ago'..."

Fantastic!!  ;)

Xosé
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Xose

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Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
« Reply #57 on: May 18, 2010, 12:19:15 PM »

Another view of the Dalrymple Hall in Fraserburgh -where the Silver Beetles backed Johnny Gentle in 23 May 1960- sent today by Mr. George Borthwick...

Best,

Xosé

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Bobber

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Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
« Reply #58 on: May 18, 2010, 01:10:43 PM »

It looks as if it's closed down. Still no pictures of May 1960? lol
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Xose

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Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
« Reply #59 on: May 18, 2010, 01:55:03 PM »

It looks as if it's closed down. Still no pictures of May 1960? lol

No: unfortunately, no pictures of May 1960. But Mr. George Borthwick is a VERY VERY VERY helpful man. IMHO these pieces of info he is providing -and me uploading- are very interesting to all those interested in Beatles early history...

Xosé
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