A treasury and a place to meet people of all ages with various interests from all over the World
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

PLEASE READ OUR FORUM RULES HERE

Author Topic: Controversial comments made by macca on lennon ?  (Read 3181 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

chewinggum

  • One And One Is Two
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18
Controversial comments made by macca on lennon ?
« on: August 19, 2012, 10:21:25 AM »

hello

i'm new, my name's marc
i'm a little journalist

could you all tell me if macca really said sth like that

'lennon wasnt martin luther king; lennon was suspicious, plotter, parano, jealous and took advantage of songs he never wrote'

it comes from the (serious) french public tv in 1985
watch the 3rd videoclip
http://obsession.nouvelobs.com/people/20120131.OBS0272/la-carriere-de-paul-mccartney-en-5-videos.html
Logged
GEMM is your best source for impossible-to-find !

jamesbjorkman

  • A Beginning
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 50
    • Everything Paul McCartney
Re: Controversial comments made by macca on lennon ?
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2012, 12:06:52 AM »

Wow, that's a lot of stuff for Paul to have said about John!

I think I would have seen something if Paul had ever come right out and said that John claimed credit for Paul's songs, was suspicious, etc.  They sometimes had slightly different recollections of how much each contributed to particular songs, but that's not the same as calling the other out.

That's not to say that Paul didn't THINK all those things, perhaps rightly in some small ways.  He may have said those things in private, wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.  Paul, however, is much too diplomatic to come right out and slag off Lennon in the media, with any cameras or tape recorders around. Trust me, it would be big news if he did.  Instead, he says oblique things about John that can be interpreted various ways, such as (I'm paraphrasing here) "People think that John was the bully and I was nice, but that's not the way it was at all."  They both used their song lyrics to (supposedly) take shots at each other, but that requires interpretation and they are, again, oblique shots at best.

Here are some thing that Paul DID say about John.  You might notice Paul often uses little qualifiers when saying things about Lennon, such as "in the main" and "it wasn't always" like that, or putting his praise in the past tense:

"I feel that if I said anything about John, I would have to sit here for five days and say it all. Or I don't want to say anything."

"John's time and effort were, in the main, spent on pretty honorable stuff. As for the other side, well, nobody's perfect, nobody's Jesus. And look what they did to him."

"To keep the record straight, it wasn't always John and Yoko. We've all accused one another of various business things; we tend to be pretty paranoid by now, as you can imagine. There's a lot of money involved."

"I definitely did look up to John. We all looked up to John. He was older and he was very much the leader; he was the quickest wit and the smartest."

The best stories, though, are the ones where you have to look at what Paul does rather than what he says.  For instance, there's a story (perhaps made up) that he saw a songbook that, for space reasons, supposedly credited "Yesterday" solely to Lennon.  That started the whole "Lennon/McCartney" vs. "McCartney/Lennon" fiasco of about ten years ago.

Also delicious are the (probably completely made up) stories that suggest a deep dislike between Paul and the others, such as the one that Yoko supposedly set Paul up for the Tokyo drug bust (while, um, John was still very much alive).

But if anyone can point me to a direct quote wherein Paul flat-out calls John a weasel, I will be astonished, because I have never seen one in the media directly attributed to him.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2012, 12:11:15 AM by jamesbjorkman »
Logged

chewinggum

  • One And One Is Two
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18
Re: Controversial comments made by macca on lennon ?
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2012, 12:08:34 PM »

apparently

macca would have said this sentence in private
in May 1981 (right after he'd attended Ringo's wedding to Barbara Bach on April 27)

macca was tired of all the titles proclaiming lennon as the best beatles ever !

i think you can read that in one of the  biographies written by Hunter Davies.

Logged

Toejam

  • A Beginning
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 239
Re: Controversial comments made by macca on lennon ?
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2012, 10:55:58 PM »

, oblique shots at best.


There's nothing oblique about How do you sleep?!!!!
Logged
IMAGINE ALL THE PEEPLE

nimrod

  • Guest
Re: Controversial comments made by macca on lennon ?
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2012, 11:51:48 PM »

apparently

macca would have said this sentence in private
in May 1981 (right after he'd attended Ringo's wedding to Barbara Bach on April 27)

macca was tired of all the titles proclaiming lennon as the best beatles ever !

i think you can read that in one of the  biographies written by Hunter Davies.



I think we all know that they took big swipes at each other and criticised each other, its no big deal, even siblings have that love/hate thing going, yes they sometimes got on each others tits and said nasty things.................so what ?

Since John died Paul has said great things about John (even wrote a song about him) John said great things about Paul before he died (he even said he loved him) you dont say these things unless you mean them, I see the b****ing as a sibling type thing, Ive called my brother a dickhead more than once :D
Logged

jamesbjorkman

  • A Beginning
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 50
    • Everything Paul McCartney
Re: Controversial comments made by macca on lennon ?
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2012, 03:34:13 PM »

There's nothing oblique about How do you sleep?!!!!

In his final Playboy Interview, John said that song was more about himself than about Paul.

Toejam

  • A Beginning
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 239
Re: Controversial comments made by macca on lennon ?
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2012, 04:09:55 PM »

In his final Playboy Interview, John said that song was more about himself than about Paul.
oh gawwdwd! Well John Lennon might have written some of the most wonderful songs I've ever heard in my life, ha ha ha no pun intended, but I'm calling him on that  BS! He was more than a little prone to psychobabble and that just epitomes what complete and utter guff could come out of his mouth. He was angry at Paul and he wrote a song slagging him off. That's all there was to it. Plain and simple. I don't even think it's that big a deal esp. as they later started getting on better and as Nimrod said John said he loved Paul later on. He even wore a badge saying so.  It's only an issue for journalists and partially interested observers to gossip about. I remember getting angry at that Bob Harris interview where he asked John if he 'regreted How do you sleep?'. Why the heck should it even be a question but it was. That's journalism for you...that's the human race for you.
Logged
IMAGINE ALL THE PEEPLE

jamesbjorkman

  • A Beginning
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 50
    • Everything Paul McCartney
Re: Controversial comments made by macca on lennon ?
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2012, 02:41:22 AM »

You have a good grasp on the mainstream view, that the song was purely an attack on Paul.

However, when an artist creates something, then tells me "this is what I really meant," I do him the courtesy of trying to see how that might have played out.

If you look at some of the lyrics of the song without reference to the fact that they are titles of Paul's songs - admittedly, difficult to do, but try it - you really can interpret much of that song as an act of self-loathing. 

"Sgt. Pepper took you by surprise" - Paul thought up Sgt. Pepper - how could it take HIM by surprise.  It probably took Lennon by surprise, all right.  That's when Lennon lost control of the band for good, the pivotal moment in Beatles history.

"The only thing you done was yesterday" - Lennon's post-Beatles career was nowhere near the level of success of Paul's.  Paul was riding high, Lennon was drifting.

"and since you've gone you're just another day" - Paul led a successful band, while Lennon was just another solo artist.

Now, I admit that a few of the lines do seem like direct shots at Paul - the "pretty face" line, the "muzak to my ears" shot, the "you was dead" reference.  I would argue that, if you take away the fact that they appear aimed at Paul, and instead see them as being aimed at a Beatle, you can also see them as an indirect attack on himself - former leader of the Beatles, the man who more than anyone created them and identified with them.  One can just see John, angry at himself for putting out increasingly unappreciated songs, belittling them as "muzak," and thinking of himself as being just as dead inside creatively as the "freaks" said Paul was in reality.  The idea of the Beatles as just being "pretty faces" whose time had passed may have preyed on his mind.  I am reminded of a curious statement Linda said much later, that when John "retired," it wasn't because he didn't want to write - it was because he couldn't.

That's why I said it was oblique.  Paul is never mentioned by name, and Lennon leaves it up to the listener to draw the appropriate conclusions.  Ultimately, the listeners were completely fooled, the joke was on them (and Lennon was famous for doing stuff like that), since he by his own admission was talking as much about himself as his former bandmate in this song.  Using the titles to Paul's songs was the perfect cover, camouflage for his real target to the tenth degree.  Nobody understood that he was sad, depressed, angry at himself, and bitter about his own failings, both in failing to keep the Beatles together (which he could have done, quite easily, by getting rid of Allen Klein), and in going down a path that increasingly must have looked like it led nowhere.

It was so brilliant, so deceptive, that to this day, and despite his own explanation, listeners don't catch on to what he was doing.

« Last Edit: September 01, 2012, 04:23:45 AM by jamesbjorkman »
Logged

Mairi

  • That Means a Lot
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 7886
  • The owls are not what they seem
Re: Controversial comments made by macca on lennon ?
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2012, 12:39:48 AM »

Interesting interpretation, Todd.

i always thought that rather obvious attack on McCartney was poor songwriting, but looking at it from this light, it adds another dimension to the song.
Logged
I am posting on an internet forum, therefore my opinion is fact.

nimrod

  • Guest
Re: Controversial comments made by macca on lennon ?
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2012, 03:10:08 AM »

tbh, I firmly believe that the song was about Paul in reply to his 'Too Many People' song, I think Lennon admitted as much

"The only thing you done was yesterday"

Paul wrote a great song called Yesterday

"and since you've gone you're just another day"

Paul wrote a poor song called Another day

"A Pretty Face......"

Paul has a pretty face

"You Was Dead......"

Paul was the only one who had a rumour about him passing away



Logged

tkitna

  • That Means a Lot
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 7028
  • I'm a Moondog,,,,,are you?
Re: Controversial comments made by macca on lennon ?
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2012, 07:48:10 PM »

In his final Playboy Interview, John said that song was more about himself than about Paul.

He would be lying then.

blmeanie

  • Getting Better
  • ***
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 268
Re: Controversial comments made by macca on lennon ?
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2012, 08:28:49 PM »

in the video shot of John recording it there can be no mistake of who the anger is geared towards
Logged

nimrod

  • Guest
Re: Controversial comments made by macca on lennon ?
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2012, 11:01:20 PM »

He would be lying then.

yes Im sue he would be lying, probably because he regretted it, Im sure Paul regretted his question and answer interview sheet he put in the McCartney album, they were definitely into taking swipes at each other during that period..
Logged

Yeshelloitsmehereagain

  • Getting Better
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 291
Re: Controversial comments made by macca on lennon ?
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2012, 03:41:00 AM »

Obviously it was about Paul, but alot of the songs I guess they thought didn't mean much at the time probably meant alot in retrospection, take Help! for instance.

Anyway I think the first side of Ram has a number of condesending b****y moments that may or may not have been aimed towards Lennon.

Paul said the "Sharing party lines.." was the only slight thing about Lennon. I think maybe Paul can lie too.
Logged

tkitna

  • That Means a Lot
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 7028
  • I'm a Moondog,,,,,are you?
Re: Controversial comments made by macca on lennon ?
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2012, 06:50:14 AM »

Sure Paul can lie. All of them can when they see fit.

Toejam

  • A Beginning
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 239
Re: Controversial comments made by macca on lennon ?
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2012, 01:37:26 PM »

He would be lying then.

I wouldn't see it as lying per se...more a case of classic Lennon psychobabble.
Logged
IMAGINE ALL THE PEEPLE

tkitna

  • That Means a Lot
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 7028
  • I'm a Moondog,,,,,are you?
Re: Controversial comments made by macca on lennon ?
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2012, 12:57:58 AM »

I wouldn't see it as lying per se...more a case of classic Lennon psychobabble.

You can classify it how you want. The song was about Paul.
 

Page created in 1.386 seconds with 26 queries.