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Author Topic: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band  (Read 5778 times)

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Kevin

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Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
« Reply #40 on: February 22, 2013, 04:29:17 PM »

Hello Tk. good points.
I too lost my mum at 5 and I'm not torn apart. But different people deal with things in different ways.
But again, I don't want to defend Johns emotions. He was a self pitying self obsessive, but i think he honestly believed this, however misguidingly.
And i think it's that raw emotion (however misplaced) that gives this album frisson. I'd compare it to Neil Young's Tonights The Night. It's a glimpse into a tortured head. I can't believe he was putting it on.
And I can't believe I'm defending John bl**dy Lennon.
I'll be going to church next.  :)
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tkitna

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Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
« Reply #41 on: February 22, 2013, 05:18:16 PM »

I too lost my mum at 5 and I'm not torn apart. But different people deal with things in different ways.

Your right of course, but to think he was that mental about it is frustrating. Its almost as though John held a grudge against everything except for what was right there in front of him. Maybe he did.

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But again, I don't want to defend Johns emotions. He was a self pitying self obsessive, but i think he honestly believed this, however misguidingly.

I just cant fall that deep into it. I still feel that John used his status to kind of push the issue. I guess i'm trying to say that I feel a lot of his issues were thrown out there on purpose just for the shock of it. Maybe he wanted people to feel sorry for him or lavish in the idea that he was a tortured soul. I think it was more on the line of lack of creativity. He didnt have a lot to say, but when he wanted to say something, he wanted it to count. I'm rambling. Sorry.

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I can't believe he was putting it on.
And I can't believe I'm defending John bl**dy Lennon.

I cant believe he was that depressed. It wasnt just this album either. Somebody should have told him that its ok to be happy once in awhile.

Hombre_de_ningun_lugar

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Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
« Reply #42 on: February 22, 2013, 05:26:42 PM »

John almost always wrote songs about himself, and one could feel indentified or not with them. Plastic Ono Band is no more than a maximization of this. It's said that when you have a mental problem (like John at that moment) your personality is expressed at a much higher level.
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nimrod

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Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
« Reply #43 on: February 22, 2013, 10:46:02 PM »

Great review Cor and its good to hear from Kevin again. The contrast here is interesting. You have one camp that enjoys the emotions and 'honesty' of the album, and then we have the other camp that thinks John pulled the wool over their eye's. I fall into into the second side. I think John wanted us to think he was that screwed up and emotionally distraught most of the time. He lays it on so thick that I cant take him seriously. Here we have a 30 year old man that has very few to no memories of his mother and father and he's coming across as being so mentally tore up about it that he can barely handle it. Seriously? I dont believe him. I lost my father 10 years ago, and although I miss him, I feel i'm doing alright. Of course we also have to take into account of how he's the social recluse and the loaner. Yeah, nobody liked poor John and he felt alone. Again, give me a break. I dont have the energy to go into anymore detail. If I could say one thing about John Lennon, it would be that he was one hell of an actor. 

I cant help feeling your missing the point here Todd..........like you Ive lost my Dad (and my Mum), we all lose our parents but my parents wanted me when I was a child, they nurtured me and loved me (as I hope yours did) Johns parents simply didnt want him, they didnt want to live with him, Julia gave him to Mimi, his Dad f***ed off to sea, he spent his early (and adolescence) childhood knowing his parents didnt want him.....thats way different that your loving  parents dying.

Also, I dont know if you have read about Primal Therapy, but the whole point of the course is to feel self pity, you are encouraged to be angry at your parents and feel self pity (like in the song Mother), its a concept you have to grasp before slating the song lyrically.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 11:56:51 PM by nimrod »
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Yeshelloitsmehereagain

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Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
« Reply #44 on: February 22, 2013, 11:48:18 PM »

I bought it today and have listened to it a couple of times, I'll give it a couple more and then I'll attempt to make some kind of response.

Did a few of you buy this album back in December 1970?
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Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
« Reply #45 on: February 22, 2013, 11:57:01 PM »

...we all lose our parents but my parents wanted me when I was a child, they nurtured me and loved me (as I hope yours did) Johns parents simply didnt want him, they didnt want to live with him, Julia gave him to Mimi, his Dad f***ed off to sea, he spent his early (and adolescence) childhood knowing his parents didnt want him.....

I'm fortunate to still have my mom and dad whose love has guided me through the years.  I cannot begin to imagine what life would have been like under conditions experienced by John.  He was affected deeply by what happened to him as a child.  His life wasn't easy.
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tkitna

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Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
« Reply #46 on: February 23, 2013, 01:36:29 AM »

I cant help feeling your missing the point here Todd..........like you Ive lost my Dad (and my Mum), we all lose our parents but my parents wanted me when I was a child, they nurtured me and loved me (as I hope yours did) Johns parents simply didnt want him, they didnt want to live with him, Julia gave him to Mimi, his Dad f***ed off to sea, he spent his early (and adolescence) childhood knowing his parents didnt want him.....thats way different that your loving  parents dying.

Also, I dont know if you have read about Primal Therapy, but the whole point of the course is to feel self pity, you are encouraged to be angry at your parents and feel self pity (like in the song Mother), its a concept you have to grasp before slating the song lyrically.

I suppose I am missing the point to some extent. I never take into account that John was doing his goofy primal scream therapy and I guess he's written these songs in accordance to that. It makes more sense in that fact, but I cant agree with the theory behind it all. Was it Yoko who convinced John to attend these sessions? I ask, because if John went on his own dime then he was still feeling emotionally screwed up about his childhood. I guess i'm speaking for myself, but if my mother and father didnt want me, then f*** them. I wouldnt sit around moping about it for the rest of my life.

Maybe I just need to read up on the whole album again as its been years and I havent had much interest in it. Its just not a good listen for me. Its the exact opposite actually, but thats what he was shooting for in the end right?

nimrod

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Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
« Reply #47 on: February 23, 2013, 01:52:34 AM »

I suppose I am missing the point to some extent. I never take into account that John was doing his goofy primal scream therapy and I guess he's written these songs in accordance to that. It makes more sense in that fact, but I cant agree with the theory behind it all. Was it Yoko who convinced John to attend these sessions? I ask, because if John went on his own dime then he was still feeling emotionally screwed up about his childhood. I guess i'm speaking for myself, but if my mother and father didnt want me, then f*** them. I wouldnt sit around moping about it for the rest of my life.

Maybe I just need to read up on the whole album again as its been years and I havent had much interest in it. Its just not a good listen for me. Its the exact opposite actually, but thats what he was shooting for in the end right?

you have to try to put yourself in his position, Im sure he said 'f*** them' to himself many many times, but in the end that doesnt fulfill you and it doesnt get rid of the well of anger deep inside,  he therefore became a bad boy, a sort of thug, his anger was manifesting itself in terms of an angry young man, who 'didnt give a f***' about anything except rock n roll..........its a classic case of Freudian theory.

Johns anger though, manifested itself  into him wanting to be a teddy boy and a leather clad  Elvis who cosy middle class parents didnt like and teachers hated.......and I honestly think without this anger and angst, there may not have been any Quarrymen or Beatles.

Full marks to John imo for 'doing' Primal Therapy and realizing that thugism and anger is not the way to live, I think it did him good, I think it made him a better person.

Yes the album is self obsessed, but its supposed to be.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 03:43:50 AM by nimrod »
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tkitna

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Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
« Reply #48 on: February 23, 2013, 01:54:20 AM »

His life wasn't easy.

Care to elaborate on this Barry? He lived better then the other three even if his parents werent around. Lets not forget that we're talking about a guy who had the world by the balls at age 18. He didnt have it very bad in my opinion.

tkitna

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Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
« Reply #49 on: February 23, 2013, 02:03:45 AM »

you have to try to put himself in his position

I've tried Kev. It's still hard for me to believe he held onto all that anger for all that time. I couldnt do it.

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Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
« Reply #50 on: February 23, 2013, 02:23:38 AM »

Care to elaborate on this Barry? He lived better then the other three even if his parents werent around. Lets not forget that we're talking about a guy who had the world by the balls at age 18. He didnt have it very bad in my opinion.

Todd, I'm not talking about his artistc capabilities or his financial status.  I was referring to his emotional state.  Do we really know what troubled him?  Were any of us close to him?  Each of us are troubled by something.  And each of us react to similar circumstances in different ways.  If John let out his feelings the way he did at that point in his life, there was a reason for it.  I can only take what he had to say at face value and not speculate as to his motives.
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Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
« Reply #51 on: February 23, 2013, 02:51:19 AM »

It's still hard for me to believe he held onto all that anger for all that time. I couldnt do it.

There had to be other things that troubled him too besides being abandoned by his parents.
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tkitna

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Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
« Reply #52 on: February 23, 2013, 03:05:05 AM »

Todd, I'm not talking about his artistc capabilities or his financial status.  I was referring to his emotional state.  Do we really know what troubled him?  Were any of us close to him?  Each of us are troubled by something.  And each of us react to similar circumstances in different ways.  If John let out his feelings the way he did at that point in his life, there was a reason for it.  I can only take what he had to say at face value and not speculate as to his motives.

I understand. It seems a lot of people jump on the John bandwagon because he was the emotional one or the rebel. Its just too much for me to jump on board. Its almost exhausting. Nobody should take life that seriously.

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Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
« Reply #53 on: February 23, 2013, 03:22:25 AM »

I understand. It seems a lot of people jump on the John bandwagon because he was the emotional one or the rebel. Its just too much for me to jump on board. Its almost exhausting. Nobody should take life that seriously.

And I appreciate how you feel, Todd.  I'm a Beatles fan and I love their music.  But they are/were human beings with both virtues and faults.  We "know" them by the music, movies and music videos they gave us and by what people remember and wrote about them.  Some authors are credible and some are not.  We have suppositions about their personalities and that's the extent to which we know them.

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Snoopy66

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Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
« Reply #54 on: February 23, 2013, 10:32:05 PM »

My 2nd favourite solo Beatle album.
One of the things I like about Johns music is that he always wrote and sang about what was in his head at that time (like a diary), a kind of social commentary on what he thought about certain issues, sometimes his views may have been misguided but he was always honest about the subject he wrote about, every song on this and Imagine is a dialogue of his thoughts on whatever was going on, it doesnt really matter if you agree with him, but he's being honest in his songs and he's saying something, using his songs as a vehicle to express opinion.

My problem with Pauls albums is always the opposite of this, I have absolutely no idea what Paul is singing about most of the time, I dont know what a Monkberry Moon delight is, or a C Moon, or why he says he is a Bluebird, or why his band is on the run, it all sounds very 'twee' to me, a pity, as Paul WAS capable of writing great lyrics when he could be bothered.......Ive always been a lyrics fan and I love it when artists have something to say,

I actually dont think there are that many artists that could have written this album, its not easy to kind of bare your soul to millions of people in an attempt to tell the world what is wrong with you, but I dont think anyone can imagine what its like to have parents who dont want you, after all when you a little child, your parents are THE most important people in your life, they are your rock which your whole being is pivoted on, you want them to love you and care for you, I simply cant imagine what it must be like if the opposite applies.
Good on John for releasing this pain in music and exorcising those inner feelings of inadequacy, and for wanting 'his' truth to be told.
I feel pretty much the same about John's solo work. He just wrote what he had in mind and you know when you listen to his records, how and what he was feeling right then.

POB is a very personal album, probably the most personal of John's solo-career and I always find it painful to listen to it all songs all together at once. The lyrics are powerful and I love John's voice, full of emotions.

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Bobber

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Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
« Reply #55 on: February 24, 2013, 07:38:55 PM »

Why is POB a personal album?

We all pretend to really know all our heroes personally and can therefore tell that an album has this or that feeling and is a personal document or not. I really don't know whether POB is a personal album and whether John was showing his inner soul to us. Why is this album more personal than any other album? Like I said before, of course it can be so that the songs and lyrics appeal to listeners in one way or another.
I guess that McCartney and Ram could be personal albums to Paul. But probably not recognized in such a way.

So, I can't judge whether and album is a personal document or not and think it's an irrelevant discussion. I can give a personal opinion on what I hear.
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tkitna

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Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
« Reply #56 on: February 25, 2013, 01:46:03 AM »

I hear you Cor. It feels like he's trying too hard to me. Laying it on too thick maybe.

nimrod

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Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
« Reply #57 on: February 25, 2013, 04:19:56 AM »

Why is POB a personal album?
Why is this album more personal than any other album?


because he is singing about his feelings for his parents in a very direct way, he is telling us in no uncertain terms what his feelings are about them, also his feelings about other people who were closest to him, also his feelings about people he admired like Elvis & Dylan & Jesus, I can think of no other album where the artist lays out his feelings about the people in his life so plainly & directly.

I dont see how an album like McCartney is giving out a personal vibe at all, all he tells us is that he loves Linda, and he's amazed by it.....well surprise surprise, Id never have guessed that Paul !!
When he sings about Kreena Kroori (spelling) what is he saying about them ? that he loves them ? or hates them ? he sings a song about an unknown boy called Ted, who exactly is Ted ? theres a track called Junk, how is that personal ? does he like walking around rubbish dumps looking at stuff ? what is Glasses all about ? I dont see much about this album that is personal except he thinks Linda is lovely....thats all he's telling us
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tkitna

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Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
« Reply #58 on: February 25, 2013, 06:23:13 AM »

also his feelings about people he admired like Elvis & Dylan & Jesus,

You mean the people he didnt believe in?


I'll stop treading on you and Cor's conversation Kev. I will say that I though that each John release got a little better then the previous for some reason. Maybe he started to lighten up a little.

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Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
« Reply #59 on: February 25, 2013, 07:19:53 AM »

Todd, I'm not talking about his artistc capabilities or his financial status.  I was referring to his emotional state.  Do we really know what troubled him?  Were any of us close to him?  Each of us are troubled by something.  And each of us react to similar circumstances in different ways.  If John let out his feelings the way he did at that point in his life, there was a reason for it. 
Well said Barry, I fully agree on that  :)

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