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Author Topic: Recession  (Read 10362 times)

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Bill Harry

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Recession
« on: October 27, 2008, 01:30:26 PM »

I just wonder what other people make of this increasingly scary talk of the meltdown of the world's economic system. In Britain it's depressing, frightening stories every day. Taxpayers have had to pay to bail out the banks, but the banks are using a loophole to take people's homes from them if they default on even one thousand pounds. Gordon Brown won't take any notice of the economists who say it is wrong to buy our way out of it by massive borrowing to pay for works which may not be of any use, that the best way is to cut tax because that gives people more money to spend and the money stays within the system without leaving a massive borrowing debt. But every day is seems that money is no longer safe with prophets of doom talking as if we are going to have another Wall Street style crash. How did it all happen? People are afraid to spend, afraid to book holidays, all of which makes matters worse as companies then start to go under.
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harihead

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Re: Recession
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2008, 05:29:11 PM »

Hi, Bill. I'm hearing the same news over here. Our $700 billion bailout was bungled, just as all the thousands of citizens who called in to oppose the bill had feared. Congress put through massive funding for these criminally liable (in my opinion) perpetrators of the crisis, and then put the same people in charge of distributing this money fairly. Big surprise when it didn't happen. The banks are hoarding the money to make themselves look less flimsy or are using it to acquire other banks, and are doing nothing to get credit flowing or save the people who are losing their homes.

I think in America we are finally mustering the political will to get rid of this "free market" fallacy that too many of us have been infatuated with. But the damage to our economic systems already appears to be done. I have a bet with my financial planner. He thinks we'll recover in 7 to 20 years (such good news for people in my age bracket!). I'm betting I'm going to be frying tofu on a stick over a garbage can fire, probably using dollar bills for fuel.

The problem is serious and increasingly appears to be real, rather than a media drama, of which we have far too many. The good news is that people can change things if they set about a good plan with a will. The trouble is that not everyone agrees on what constitutes a good plan. We definitely have learned a lot about economics since our first Great Depression, but whether we can put sound policies in place that are not corrupted by self-interest remains to be seen.
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Kaleidoscope_Eyes

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Re: Recession
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2008, 10:52:29 PM »

Yep the recession is everywhere, and I think it is mainly because banks and other financial instituitions "lend long and borrow short" as my lecturer said. They allow to borrow huge sums over a long period of time to too many people. At the end of the day you are waiting for your money. They never learn.

For NZ, a small country who depends on borrowing from the rest of the world... well we feeling the recession too. We have our election on the 8th and candidates always talk about how they can get us out of the Financial Crisis. One party said we must be build more, increase our assets... Not the right time, i'll say.

Quote from: 551
I have a bet with my financial planner. He thinks we'll recover in 7 to 20 years (such good news for people in my age bracket!).
7-20yrs... thats a big gap... 10yrs perhaps, but I think we willl recover even earlier.

What comes down, goes up again  :)

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DaveRam

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Re: Recession
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2008, 09:11:22 AM »

You can only spend what you have , this golden rule seems too have been forgotten over the past decade by Governments ,Bankers and individuals .
Good old fashioned budgeting is the new financial sexy (thumbsup)
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Kaleidoscope_Eyes

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Re: Recession
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2008, 10:18:24 PM »

Quote from: 971
Good old fashioned budgeting is the new financial sexy (thumbsup)
Lovely word choice there, DaveRam!  ;D

You will be amazed though how many people critisize the budget. I had an entire 6 weeks of Limitations of the Budget. but I disagree with them!
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Geoff

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Re: Recession
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2008, 12:59:23 PM »

This had to be next, and won't come as a surprise to anyone except President Bush:


Consumers Feel the Next Crisis: It
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Kevin

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Re: Recession
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2008, 01:46:27 PM »

I think anyone over 40 has had a sneeking suspicion that things were too good to be true - everyone jetting about wherever and whenever, two car families, gadgets galore and endless ready meals.The bubble had to burst.
So far I've survived; The Space Race, Nuclear Armegeddon, Overpopulation, Drought, Acid Rain, Fuel Shock, AIDS, Bird Flu, Global Warming, a couple of recessions, The Millenium Bug, Meteorites, Obese Knife Wielding Hoodies.....probably forgot a few.
It's not keeping me up at night.
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aspinall_lover

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Re: Recession
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2008, 02:35:40 PM »

I think things are gonna get worse than better.  We've tighten the belt around my house.  But I do say, I am one of the "lucky ones" and I'm not bragging:  Our home and land is paid for, no mortgage, our car and truck have been paid for for years.  Just a couple of credit cards.  We're just "tax and insurance" poor, and I do mean that.  And the government are taxing the crap out of people like us who are middle-class.
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An Apple Beatle

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Re: Recession
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2008, 03:04:44 PM »

My income is from music......I've always lived on the breadline....no difference there then. lol

I am lucky to be mortgage free tho.
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aspinall_lover

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Re: Recession
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2008, 04:52:50 PM »

^^^^^^Good for you, AppleBeatle..............my stuff may be paid for, but like I said, I'm still "tax and insurance poor".
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harihead

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Re: Recession
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2008, 03:02:23 PM »

Kevin, I love your list! I have quite a list myself. After becoming depressed for a couple of weeks, I decided to cheer up and enjoy the new Great Depression. It doesn't make any difference in the grand scheme, but I'm a lot happier!

Regarding the credit card crisis, I'm one of those people the credit card companies call "deadbeats". That means I pay off my balance every month, rather than paying them interest for all of my purchases. I think it's illuminating that the cc companies have such a disparaging name for people who are good credit risks. That means that their preferred clientele are spending money they don't have to, paying these companies for their gizmos and keeping the game going. Except reality called the game, and now we're all in trouble. As has been said earlier, was anyone really surprised?
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Geoff

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Re: Recession
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2008, 03:40:05 AM »

Quote from: 551
As has been said earlier, was anyone really surprised?  


Maybe the guy on the right....




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Jane

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Re: Recession
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2008, 09:53:19 PM »

Fortunately I don`t have to pay any credits or loans or mortgages. I am waiting for the prices to go down now to get a good deal. I think it`s time to buy rather than sell cause money can lose its value, as it usually happens during the crisis or recession. Better to invest it in something.
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DaveRam

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Re: Recession
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2009, 03:00:32 PM »

It's offical the UK is now in a Recession , the economy as not been this bad since 1980 .
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An Apple Beatle

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Re: Recession
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2009, 08:28:46 PM »

UK wise, I blame the Tories in the 80's for a lot of our mess even though people are blaming Labour...Labour, (thought not completely blameless with their mis-spending) just inherited what was really UK's last financial attempt at survival in the 80's. Capitalism and mass privatisation. The bubble was always going to burst. Like Harihead's post above, I feel it's a shame for those of us that were sensible to be picking up the tab.
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HeatherBoo

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Re: Recession
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2009, 08:13:03 PM »

It seems like this happens.  I mean times go great then they get bad and get great again.  It just sucks for people who were trying to retire anytime soon.  I know my grandfather lost ALOT of money in his stocks.  
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Bill Harry

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Re: Recession
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2009, 02:32:34 PM »

Actually, the Tories left a fantastic economic heritage for Labour to take over. Labour then began to run down manufacturing and employ more than 600,000 extra civil servants. Although the private sector earns the money, the public sector began to get increased benefits, larger salaries, able to retire at 60 while the age of the private sector was 65, plus the public sector got better pension arrangements after Gordon Brown had virtually destroyed what was one of the best private pension systems in Europe. Under him the Council Tax doubled and numerous council tax officials were increasing their salaries to over a hundred thousand pounds a year. One in five of the work force was working in the public sector now. Gordon Brown sold huge British gold reserves at its lowest point in order to prop up the Euro, even though we weren't in it. If we had that gold now, since gold is at its highest point, things wouldn't be so bad.Tony Blair gave up a huge part of our contribution rebate from Europe (why are we such high payers when most of the other countries don't even contribute). They destroyed our borders and we became flooded with more than a million illegal immigrates who, although unlawful, can't really be sent back to their own country because of the Human Rights law. The pound is dropping because of the incredible amount of borrowing - nothing was put aside during the 'golden years' when Brown said boom and bust was over.
Frankly, I think 11 years of Labour has virtually destroyed the country and there is no going back. Look at the current farce where over 100 Albanian murderers and rapists, sought after by Interpol and the Albanian Government have been given British citizenship and the Government refuses to co-operate with Interpol or the request of the Albanian Government for us to send back the men who have committed crimes such as murder in their country. This is apart from the actual terrorists from Rwanda, Afghanistan and other countries who have been taken into Britain and given houses and benefits on the British taxpayer. These are actual known terrorists who have committed acts of terror in other countries.
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An Apple Beatle

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Re: Recession
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2009, 03:05:26 PM »

Wow Bill...put into that perspective, makes me want to retract my earlier Tory slating. I had some idea about the public sector spending and increased immigration but never knew about the gold reserves or the criminal harbouring. It seemed to me that UK replaced it's lost exports of Steel and Coal with Defence contracts to countries we were pulling out of in the breakdown of the Empire.

I'm not fond on either Government really. Things are certainly a mess but Cameron does not seem a great alternative either right now. I'm hoping the country can start putting some REAL value back on things. It's the only positive left out of this economic and social trouble.

Apparently, the 'greenshoots' of recovery will appear when and if the American Housing market picks back up. Lets hope Obama steers it the right way.

Thanks for the extra insight. :)
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DaveRam

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Re: Recession
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2009, 05:06:36 PM »

I think Gordon Brown will come to regret saying he had abolished "Boom and Bust" in the UK .
I thought he was doing quite well with the economy for a  few years , i think he did take his eye off the ball about 18 month ago when he was clearly pre-occupied with plotting to get rid of Tony Blair ?
A good 60% of this is out of our control , but i think Labour have made some bad policy decisions 2p off VAT is a big mistake , better to spend that money on training for new skills.
What i don't want to happen is another 17 years of Tory rule , but i fear 2009 is feeling like 1979 and i can see David Cameron been the next UK Prime Minister ?
Just think Labour need to go back to the drawing board and reconnect with the ordinary man women and child in the street , they've forgotten there roots ?
I see Ken Clarke is back on the Tory front bench , very brave move by David Cameron bringing Ken back indicates to me he's serious about wanting to be the next PM ?
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Bill Harry

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Re: Recession
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2009, 06:08:52 PM »

There are a number of things about the Labour government which people aren't generally aware of. England and Wales are the only two places on Earth which have the feudal leasehold system. The only country outside of Britain which had it was Hawaii, who then got rid of it years ago. This is a system in which you can buy a house, but it still belongs to someone who just owns the ground on which it is built. They can take the property from you if you get behind on service charges - and you would still have to pay the mortgage even if you had lost the property. The longer you have it, the less time is left on your lease and the price of the property reduces as long as you live in it. The freeholders can charge all sorts of service charge costs, can intimidate residents with threats of county court (Rachman used dogs and bully boys, freeholders use solicitors and courts). It is a completely unjust and unfair system. Scotland got rid of it completely four years ago. I wrote to Gordon Brown because Labour promised to end it when they first got into power 11 years ago, but under Labour it has actually increased and they have brought in laws more in favour of the big landowners which makes it even more difficult for leaseholders. Gordon Brown's own constituents in Scotland no longer have the leasehold system, but his representative uwrote back to me saying the Government have no intention of ending this feudal system, despite a huge petition with hundreds of thosands of names, which was one of the top ten petitions sent to Downing Street last year asking for this unfair system to be ended, as it has ended in Scotland.
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