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Author Topic: The vatican 'Forgives' lennon!  (Read 6059 times)

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aspinall_lover

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Re: The vatican 'Forgives' lennon!
« Reply #40 on: December 02, 2008, 08:03:35 PM »

Quote from: 971
I think John's answer would be:

Dear Pope,

It's - Happiness Is A Warm Gun
Not - Happiness Is A Warm Altar Boy

Kind Regards Lennon

^^^^^^^Hee, hee, hee!!!!!  Too freakin' funny!!!!!  And I AM Catholic..............
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alexis

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Re: The vatican 'Forgives' lennon!
« Reply #41 on: December 02, 2008, 08:09:55 PM »

Quote from: 1161

I think you're confusing intolerance with ridicule. The Church strapped a huge bull's eye on their collective butt with this one, and not surprisingly people are throwing things at it.  :)

You may be right. It just seems almost too intense to be simply ridicule.

Speaking of which, did you hear the one about the guy who went to the psychiatrist, "Doc, I keep having these alternating recurring dreams. First, I'm a tepee; then I'm a wigwam; then I'm a tepee; then I'm a wigwam. It's driving me crazy. What's wrong with me?" The doctor replies: "It's very simple. You're two tents."  :)

And from the " 'This is too weird, another coincidence...?' Department", I just came across an advertisement for "The Life of Brian". Anyone ever see this? In my mind it does to religious fanatacism what "This is Spinal Tap!" did to pop music in general (and Yoko wannabees in particular?)  :)
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Alexis

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Re: The vatican 'Forgives' lennon!
« Reply #42 on: December 02, 2008, 08:12:10 PM »

Quote from: 216

The Catholic church has certainly brought on a lot of the criticism themselves in the last decade or so haven't they? Lots of hypocritical behavior and mixed messages.

I still identify with Catholicism in some way, and there's a lot to it that's very beautiful and positive, but there was also a lot of guilt and stress. Going through Sunday school, first communion, and confirmation isn't a picnic. Confession at age 8 is a bit scary and really unnecessary! Saying countless Hail Marys and Our Fathers to forgive your sins, the threat of purgatory, an angry God...that's a lot to deal with at that age. Then the guilt follows you through to adulthood. I sure can't get rid of it. And then only to find out that when their very own priests are committing horrible acts against children instead of a proper punishment, they cover it up! What kind of message is that??

Overall, I didn't have that many bad experiences considering other Catholics I've spoken to. Mostly those who attended Catholic school. My mom wouldn't send me because she was terrorized and even beaten by the nuns! And this story isn't exclusive to her that's for sure. So yeah, there may be a lot of anger there amongst Catholics and ex-Catholics alike, but most of us/them stay with it for some reason.

I think if you went through the experience, you have the right to talk about it. Positive or negative. That's not intolerance. Not by a long shot.
^^^^^^Very, very well put Sandra.  I am a "cradle Catholic" as they say, baptized into the faith at only two weeks of age.  My mom and dad had the same experiences with nuns when they went to Catholic schools.  And even when I went, back in the 1970's, it was still kinda scary with "the Penguins".  That's why I went to a public high school for 9-12 grades.
And as for confession, I go only once a year, before Easter, and not to our priest.  During Holy Week, there are several visiting priest who come to our church to hear confessions all day long.  This is when I go.  I do not like or care for our parish priest, so I refuse to go to him.  And besides, I think you can confess your sins to God yourself and be whole-heartedly sorrow and be forgiven instead of having a "mediator" in between..........

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alexis

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Re: The vatican 'Forgives' lennon!
« Reply #43 on: December 02, 2008, 08:16:32 PM »

Quote from: 1255
^^^^^^Very, very well put Sandra.  I am a "cradle Catholic" as they say, baptized into the faith at only two weeks of age.  My mom and dad had the same experiences with nuns when they went to Catholic schools.  And even when I went, back in the 1970's, it was still kinda scary with "the Penguins".  That's why I went to a public high school for 9-12 grades.
And as for confession, I go only once a year, before Easter, and not to our priest.  During Holy Week, there are several visiting priest who come to our church to hear confessions all day long.  This is when I go.  I do not like or care for our parish priest, so I refuse to go to him.  And besides, I think you can confess your sins to God yourself and be whole-heartedly sorrow and be forgiven instead of having a "mediator" in between..........


Sounds like a latent Lutherist!

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Alexis

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Re: The vatican 'Forgives' lennon!
« Reply #44 on: December 02, 2008, 08:25:04 PM »

^^^^^^Yep, I'm a "way out there" Catholic.................
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Mairi

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Re: The vatican 'Forgives' lennon!
« Reply #45 on: December 02, 2008, 08:29:31 PM »

^It's funny you should say that because I'm studying Luther right now! And Christianity in general really. It's given me an interesting perspective on my religious background, to be sure. Homestly I was always surprised to hear people's horror stories about the nuns because my mother and her siblings had nuns as teachers, although they went to public school, and they had nothing but great things to say bout them.

Anyway, was John even raised Catholic? I know that Paul and George were. but I never heard anything about Mimi taking John to church.
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Sondra

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Re: The vatican 'Forgives' lennon!
« Reply #46 on: December 03, 2008, 01:24:50 AM »

Quote from: 568

Agree, of course. It just stuck out to me that some of the comments in the above posts seem to me to be very attacking, indistinguishable in tone to me from some of the very same Church behaviors they are incensed about.  Not sure that the comments that stick in my mind are from those who say they are raised Catholic, vs. just from posters with strong anti-Catholic/anti-religious feelings for other reasons.



I do think there's a lot of anti-religious sentiment around here, but it's how it's expressed sometimes that I think borders on disrespectful to those who do believe. I mean, to call it fantasy or fairy tales and imply that people who have faith are somehow being duped or are of lower intelligence  is a bit extreme, and yes intolerant. And guess what, who knows what's really up. Who are we to be so presumptuous. A  little humility goes a long way in these matters.
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adamzero

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Re: The vatican 'Forgives' lennon!
« Reply #47 on: December 03, 2008, 01:52:47 AM »

Quote from: 218
^Anyway, was John even raised Catholic? I know that Paul and George were. but I never heard anything about Mimi taking John to church.

In the Mimi TV interview on the Aunt Mimi thread under the John section, she talks about him going to church every Sunday (and maybe more often than that).  The Stanleys were Church of England, I think.  Although the Lennons (Freddie and clan) may have been Catholic--probably were when they were in Ireland before emigrating to Liverpool.  

I agree with Sandra re. religion.  I hope my comments aren't construed as anti-religious or even as anti-Catholic.  Any institution will have its good and its bad, its saints and sinners, and a good mix of both.  After all, an institution is made up of individuals.  And people who blame religion for all the problems in the world ("Religulous" etc.), never seem to want to take the Nietzschean step of the will to power as the ultimate arbiter of value.  Ask the folks who lived under Stalin or Mao how wonderful it was to live in an atheistic regime.  Just look up the body counts.  

John's "bigger than Christ" comment by itself (in context) could be seen as almost religious.  If he didn't go on in the interview to call the apostles dull (even if he did like Jesus) and then say that Christianity would go (or words to that effect).  

But you always have to remember that what a person says doesn't necessarily equate with belief.  Also, I think there was a time in the late 70s (when John was in his room), when he went on a three-week TV evangelical kick.  His "salvation" however was short-lived.

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aspinall_lover

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Re: The vatican 'Forgives' lennon!
« Reply #48 on: December 03, 2008, 04:19:19 AM »

Everyone to each his/her own on religion.  I just "DO" what I have to do to appease the masses of my family.  There are alot of things I don't agree with in the Catholic church........but this is the church/religion I'm most familiar with............
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aspinall_lover

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Re: The vatican 'Forgives' lennon!
« Reply #49 on: December 03, 2008, 04:20:54 AM »

..........and on another footnote............I read somewhere that George was the only Beatle baptized into the Catholic religion/faith..........correct me if I am wrong......
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Bobber

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Re: The vatican 'Forgives' lennon!
« Reply #50 on: December 03, 2008, 03:02:20 PM »

Quote from: 1255
..........and on another footnote............I read somewhere that George was the only Beatle baptized into the Catholic religion/faith..........correct me if I am wrong......

I just read that George was offered the role of Brian (Jesus) in Monty Python's Life Of Brian.
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alexis

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Re: The vatican 'Forgives' lennon!
« Reply #51 on: December 03, 2008, 03:25:49 PM »

Quote from: 216

I do think there's a lot of anti-religious sentiment around here, but it's how it's expressed sometimes that I think borders on disrespectful to those who do believe. I mean, to call it fantasy or fairy tales and imply that people who have faith are somehow being duped or are of lower intelligence  is a bit extreme, and yes intolerant. And guess what, who knows what's really up. Who are we to be so presumptuous. A  little humility goes a long way in these matters.

As usual Sandra, I can only agree with your posting to the nth degree.

And, if I may be allowed a small indulgence (not in a religious sense), I must say I'm a bit proud of my humility. I've been working on it lately, and have found that it is really quite a bit more than just about everyone else's that I know. It may not be too much of an exaggeration to say that I possess uber-humility.   :)

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aspinall_lover

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Re: The vatican 'Forgives' lennon!
« Reply #52 on: December 03, 2008, 05:03:25 PM »

^^^^^^^Yep, you two are BOTH RIGHT.
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aspinall_lover

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Re: The vatican 'Forgives' lennon!
« Reply #53 on: December 03, 2008, 05:04:36 PM »

Quote from: 63

I just read that George was offered the role of Brian (Jesus) in Monty Python's Life Of Brian.
^^^^^^George was big buddies with the guys from Monty Python, especially Eric Idle.

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An Apple Beatle

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Re: The vatican 'Forgives' lennon!
« Reply #54 on: December 03, 2008, 05:59:03 PM »

^Didn't handmade films have something to do with the Python series?
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aspinall_lover

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Re: The vatican 'Forgives' lennon!
« Reply #55 on: December 03, 2008, 07:14:55 PM »

Quote from: 15
^Didn't handmade films have something to do with the Python series?
^^^^^^Yes, I think so.  They always had those silly little cartoon like clips in the show.

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HeyJude18

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Re: The vatican 'Forgives' lennon!
« Reply #56 on: December 03, 2008, 08:23:46 PM »

Quote from: 15
^Didn't handmade films have something to do with the Python series?

George's production company produced the Life of Brian, and George made a cameo in it, I haven't really watched too closley to see if I could spot him.
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Jane

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Re: The vatican 'Forgives' lennon!
« Reply #57 on: December 03, 2008, 08:35:59 PM »

It`s interesting that people are turning away from Catholic religion, practically only from this one. I`ve never heard anyone turning away from any other: Protestant, Orthodox, Islam so on. Though Latin America is all Catholic. What is happening to the Western countries: the USA and Europe? very interesting indeed! I was sure that the majority of people believed in God there, I was mistaken...
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HeyJude18

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Re: The vatican 'Forgives' lennon!
« Reply #58 on: December 03, 2008, 08:46:29 PM »

Quote from: 1393
It`s interesting that people are turning away from Catholic religion, practically only from this one. I`ve never heard anyone turning away from any other: Protestant, Orthodox, Islam so on. Though Latin America is all Catholic. What is happening to the Western countries: the USA and Europe? very interesting indeed! I was sure that the majority of people believed in God there, I was mistaken...

I think that here most people try to find a distinction between "God" and "religion".  I can only speak for myself, and right now I am at the point in my life where I don't believe in any sort of traditional god, it's more like I believe that there's a force that connects people, places, things, and time together (kinda sci-fi nerd of me...)  I'm not into bashing a person for believing something or not, I just know that if there is a god, that's cool, if there isn't, that's cool too.  I don't feel like because I don't identify myself with a religion or a particular view of a god figure doesn't mean that I am a bad person, I'm not sure if that's how other people feel, but that's what I think.  My two cents, I couldn't be apathetic to this anymore.
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Penny Lane

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Re: The vatican 'Forgives' lennon!
« Reply #59 on: December 03, 2008, 09:27:40 PM »

Quote from: 1255
..........and on another footnote............I read somewhere that George was the only Beatle baptized into the Catholic religion/faith..........correct me if I am wrong......

I heard that Paul McCartney is a baptized Roman Catholic too (although he is not necessarily religious).  Am I wrong?
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